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WVC girls' BB 2012-2013
blugold94
#26 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 8:49:21 AM(UTC)
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mickjagger wrote:
Final Score

Marshfield, 11 - 10 - 8 - 21 --- 50
SPASH, 7 - 20 - 15 - 21 --- 63

Turnovers:
Marshfield - 9
SPASH - 11

Free Throws:
Marshfield - 12-21
SPASH - 17-21

Rebounds:
Marshfield - 27
SPASH - ?

Scoring:
Marshfield: Michaelis 18, Molter 11, Fehrenbach 9, Zimmerman 6, Kummer 3, Zuehlke 2, Gilbertson 1

SPASH: Woyak 16 (8-8 FT's), Kohlbeck 15, Hauser 11, Taggetz 10, Smola 8, Soik 3

Records:
Marshfield 5-5 (1-3 WVC)
SPASH 7-4 (3-1 WVC)


Huge loss for Marshfield, now 1-3 in conference play. Had a chance to pull even with SPASH, but couldn't do it. IMO, Marshfield is under-performing .... due to many plausible explanations/reasons. They are not a very good defensive team. Ironic in the sense that Coach Heidi Michaelis stresses defense above all else. They've given up 146 total points in their last 2 games (73 ppg avg). The Tigers are not physically strong ..... they start 3 sophs, a junior & a senior. When they've gone up against senior-dominated teams i.e. SPASH, DePere and Waunakee, I believe they have been intimidated, outmuscled & out-physicaled. They sorely miss senior captain & forward Tiffany Stargardt who is argubly their best defender, rebounder and physical player. For the time being, 6'0" soph Ellie Fehrenbach is the Tigers only defensive post presence with some help from senior Mikayla Zimmerman. They miss a complementary post player to Feherbach, i.e. 6'0" junior Courtney Bauer, a 2-yr varsity member & part-time starter as a sophomore who abandoned the team this season. Playing defense is as much mental as it is physical. It's an attitude. It's wanting it more than your opponent. It's a state of mind that says "you're not going to beat me." The Tiger girls have yet to embrace that attitude 100% of the time. Defense wins games & championships.

With 4 starters returning, I didn't think the graduation of all-state guard, Taylor Varsho would leave such a void on this Tiger team. However, it apparently did. Nobody has consistently picked up the offensive slack. Soph Caitlin Michaelis has scoring potential and is averaging 16 pts per game. However, she has moments like last Saturday evening's 83-79 double-overtime loss to Waunakee in which she was held to 1 pt. Sophomore point guard Ellie Kummer is no doubt the most improved player this season and has developed a deadly 3-pt shot. However, she has her moments too, like tonight vs SPASH when the Panthers held her to 3 pts. The Tigers, a perrenially poor FT-shooting team, began the season shooting FT's well. However, in recent weeks, poor FT-shooting has reared its ugly head again and has been costly in several close OT games. The Tiger girls remain an above-average shooting team and can get red-hot from the outside. However, girls high school basketball has evolved into a much more complex and sophisticated game, in 2013, than simply being a game of H-O-R-S-E.

The Tiger girls are not an inexerienced team. However, they are an IMMATURE team. The graduation loss of Taylor Varsho and the in-season loss of Tiffany Stargardt have apparently been more than this young team can handle. Unless they toughen up both physically & emotionally, they may be headed for a .500 record, which is literally unheard of under Coach Heidi Michaelis.


To put the following into prespective, I'm just not a big fan of being overly critical of high school athletes.....

Been wondering whether I'd say anything about what you wrote because defending Marshfield isn't something I'd normally do.....but no matter the team I find some of what you wrote to be rather unfair. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for Marshfield being where they are this season and it's not as shocking as you make it out to be. Just off the top of my head:

-- There is always an adjustment when a top player....especially one among the best in the state... leaves.

-- Two potential starters don't come out at the start of the season and even when one comes back there is the natural choppiness of that.

-- The player who didn't come out and hasn't returned would have been the big inside presence for this team...especially on defense. Losing that makes things much more difficult for everyone else. It's a major change that make take more time to adjust to than you hope/think.

-- Their top senior and best defender misses significant time.

-- Three of their top players are sophomores. No matter how talented someone is, sophomores will have ups and downs and are still developing as players. More difficult when you play a tough schedule at the start of the season.

-- They lost a pair of double OT games. The world isn't ending if they win one or both of those games.

-- Stevens Point is better than they are. There are reasons SPASH was picked to win the league and ranked in the preseason poll. DCE and Wausau West are both good teams and Marshfield could have won either game....and they play all three again.

I hope you are doing more than just listening to radio broadcasts and reading newspaper articles to throw around terms like "immature" and saying they are emotionally weak. Losing games doesn't necessarily equal those shortcomings. That sophomores don't put up numbers in the upper teens every night shouldn't be a surprise.....if you look at the top ranked players in the class of 2015 I bet the Marshfield sophs production lines up very well with the other top players.....there are big nights but other nights will be tougher.....there are reasons that experienced teams win big more often than less experienced teams (even those younger teams with players who played the previous season), even with alot of talent.

I've seen them in person twice and they didn't look weak mentally either time to me. They don't have the big upfront presence they've had in the past and when you have to rely on outside shooting more often it's less consistent.

Immature, emotionally weak teams have a tough time getting whipped in a big conference game on Tuesday and getting on a bus and beating a good non-conference opponent on Friday by 20....even if the opponent is missing a top player. That kind of response is mature and tough IMHO.

I guess when you aren't used to seeing your team lose any conference games, losing three of four is a bit of a shock. However, I don't think calling them immature, emotionally weak and not tough is fair at this point. They are in a good conference and a good playoff regional....and can compete with any team they'll play in February and March....and should get better as the season moves forward.
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mickjagger
#27 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 11:07:06 PM(UTC)

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blugold94 wrote:
mickjagger wrote:
Final Score

Marshfield, 11 - 10 - 8 - 21 --- 50
SPASH, 7 - 20 - 15 - 21 --- 63

Turnovers:
Marshfield - 9
SPASH - 11

Free Throws:
Marshfield - 12-21
SPASH - 17-21

Rebounds:
Marshfield - 27
SPASH - ?

Scoring:
Marshfield: Michaelis 18, Molter 11, Fehrenbach 9, Zimmerman 6, Kummer 3, Zuehlke 2, Gilbertson 1

SPASH: Woyak 16 (8-8 FT's), Kohlbeck 15, Hauser 11, Taggetz 10, Smola 8, Soik 3

Records:
Marshfield 5-5 (1-3 WVC)
SPASH 7-4 (3-1 WVC)


Huge loss for Marshfield, now 1-3 in conference play. Had a chance to pull even with SPASH, but couldn't do it. IMO, Marshfield is under-performing .... due to many plausible explanations/reasons. They are not a very good defensive team. Ironic in the sense that Coach Heidi Michaelis stresses defense above all else. They've given up 146 total points in their last 2 games (73 ppg avg). The Tigers are not physically strong ..... they start 3 sophs, a junior & a senior. When they've gone up against senior-dominated teams i.e. SPASH, DePere and Waunakee, I believe they have been intimidated, outmuscled & out-physicaled. They sorely miss senior captain & forward Tiffany Stargardt who is argubly their best defender, rebounder and physical player. For the time being, 6'0" soph Ellie Fehrenbach is the Tigers only defensive post presence with some help from senior Mikayla Zimmerman. They miss a complementary post player to Feherbach, i.e. 6'0" junior Courtney Bauer, a 2-yr varsity member & part-time starter as a sophomore who abandoned the team this season. Playing defense is as much mental as it is physical. It's an attitude. It's wanting it more than your opponent. It's a state of mind that says "you're not going to beat me." The Tiger girls have yet to embrace that attitude 100% of the time. Defense wins games & championships.

With 4 starters returning, I didn't think the graduation of all-state guard, Taylor Varsho would leave such a void on this Tiger team. However, it apparently did. Nobody has consistently picked up the offensive slack. Soph Caitlin Michaelis has scoring potential and is averaging 16 pts per game. However, she has moments like last Saturday evening's 83-79 double-overtime loss to Waunakee in which she was held to 1 pt. Sophomore point guard Ellie Kummer is no doubt the most improved player this season and has developed a deadly 3-pt shot. However, she has her moments too, like tonight vs SPASH when the Panthers held her to 3 pts. The Tigers, a perrenially poor FT-shooting team, began the season shooting FT's well. However, in recent weeks, poor FT-shooting has reared its ugly head again and has been costly in several close OT games. The Tiger girls remain an above-average shooting team and can get red-hot from the outside. However, girls high school basketball has evolved into a much more complex and sophisticated game, in 2013, than simply being a game of H-O-R-S-E.

The Tiger girls are not an inexerienced team. However, they are an IMMATURE team. The graduation loss of Taylor Varsho and the in-season loss of Tiffany Stargardt have apparently been more than this young team can handle. Unless they toughen up both physically & emotionally, they may be headed for a .500 record, which is literally unheard of under Coach Heidi Michaelis.


To put the following into prespective, I'm just not a big fan of being overly critical of high school athletes.....

Been wondering whether I'd say anything about what you wrote because defending Marshfield isn't something I'd normally do.....but no matter the team I find some of what you wrote to be rather unfair. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for Marshfield being where they are this season and it's not as shocking as you make it out to be. Just off the top of my head:

-- There is always an adjustment when a top player....especially one among the best in the state... leaves.

-- Two potential starters don't come out at the start of the season and even when one comes back there is the natural choppiness of that.

-- The player who didn't come out and hasn't returned would have been the big inside presence for this team...especially on defense. Losing that makes things much more difficult for everyone else. It's a major change that make take more time to adjust to than you hope/think.

-- Their top senior and best defender misses significant time.

-- Three of their top players are sophomores. No matter how talented someone is, sophomores will have ups and downs and are still developing as players. More difficult when you play a tough schedule at the start of the season.

-- They lost a pair of double OT games. The world isn't ending if they win one or both of those games.

-- Stevens Point is better than they are. There are reasons SPASH was picked to win the league and ranked in the preseason poll. DCE and Wausau West are both good teams and Marshfield could have won either game....and they play all three again.

I hope you are doing more than just listening to radio broadcasts and reading newspaper articles to throw around terms like "immature" and saying they are emotionally weak. Losing games doesn't necessarily equal those shortcomings. That sophomores don't put up numbers in the upper teens every night shouldn't be a surprise.....if you look at the top ranked players in the class of 2015 I bet the Marshfield sophs production lines up very well with the other top players.....there are big nights but other nights will be tougher.....there are reasons that experienced teams win big more often than less experienced teams (even those younger teams with players who played the previous season), even with alot of talent.

I've seen them in person twice and they didn't look weak mentally either time to me. They don't have the big upfront presence they've had in the past and when you have to rely on outside shooting more often it's less consistent.

Immature, emotionally weak teams have a tough time getting whipped in a big conference game on Tuesday and getting on a bus and beating a good non-conference opponent on Friday by 20....even if the opponent is missing a top player. That kind of response is mature and tough IMHO.

I guess when you aren't used to seeing your team lose any conference games, losing three of four is a bit of a shock. However, I don't think calling them immature, emotionally weak and not tough is fair at this point. They are in a good conference and a good playoff regional....and can compete with any team they'll play in February and March....and should get better as the season moves forward.

Blugold, if you're going to respond to my comments on the state of Marshfield girls' basketball, I believe it's only fair that you include my own follow-up comments to my original post, to keep things in perspective:

My ranting post after the SPASH loss must've provided some bulletin board material for the Marshfield girls ..... I sure hope so .....

Big-time road-win for Marshfield as the Tigers' mastery over Eau Claire North in recent years, continues. Improvement in nearly all facets of the game: FT-shooting, defense, consistent, balanced scoring and "finishing."

Keep it going girls! This is what's possible when you focus, play defense, rebound and keep your foot on the gas pedal. You're talented enough ..... you need to keep believing in yourselves and your teammates, don't give up when you get down on the scoreboard, want the game more than your opponent, and close out games like you did tonight.

Marshfield: 18 -12 - 19 - 15 --- 64
at EC North: 15 - 8 - 16 - 5 --- 44

Final Score

Free Throws:
Marshfield: 17-22
EC North: 4-15

Turnovers:
Marshfield: 11
EC North: 14

Rebounds:
Marshfield: 33
EC North: ?

Scoring:
Marshfield: Michaelis 15, Fehrenbach 14, Kummer 14, Molter 13, Zuelke 4, Zimmerman 2, Gilbertson 2

Eau Claire North: Neyens 13, Hazelton 10, Wathke 6, Bethke 6, Quaranta 4, Salm 3, Hoenisch 2

Season Records:
Marshfield 6-5
Eau Claire North 11-3

With EC North senior post-player Kayonna Lee (D-1 recruit committed to Illinois St) out with the fllu, Marshfield sophomore post-player Ellie Fehenbach had a breakout game, scoring 14 pts and pulling down 9 rebounds.

Game Recap, ECN Coach Peplinski Comments:

http://www.leadertelegra...-8991-0019bb2963f4.html

My original post was a rant definitely born out of frustration. However, while some of my comments and opinions may have been a bit harsh, it is my belief they were rooted in reality and not unfair. And honestly, some of the harshness may have been a result of a very conscious attempt on my part to make sure my post didn't sound like I was making excuses for the Tigers girls. To wit, some of my more indicting comments, i.e. immature, needing to toughen up emotionally & mentally, are merely allusions to some of the same weaknesses Coach Michaelis has used to describe her team in broadcast radio interviews following large-margin losses to DePere and SPASH. And while I have only watched this year's version of the Tiger girls basketball team in person once this season (vs Wausau Newman in the Marshfield Holiday Tournament championship game), I have watched video of many of their games, and yes, listened to most of their games courtesy of Gene DeLisio on WDLB 1450 AM. I also talk to and discuss with cronies back in Marshfield, the various Marshfield High School sports teams. I feel I have an accurate pulse on what's going on with several sports within the MHS athletic dept.

The points you make, Blugold "off the top of your head" (which, by the way, are all valid) are pretty much the same points which I raised in my initial post. The only difference, perhaps, is that I attempted to use those points to substantiate, justify or bolster my claims of immaturity, emotional weakness and lack of mental toughness.

I wasn't kidding in my post following the victory over Eau Claire North. While listening to the game unfold on the radio and then listening to Heidi's post-game comments, I would've sworn that my original post was posted on the locker room bulletin board and taken to heart by the both the players and the coaches. There appeared to be vast improvement on the court in the specific areas that I harped on in that 1st post and Coach Michaelis alluded to some of the same points in her post-game comments, i.e. not getting down after North's 1st scoring surge, hitting their free throws, playing tough man-to-man defense and helping each other out, playing with purpose, mental toughness, "finishing" the game when North made a run to begin the 4th qtr. I'm obviously flattering myself, but seriously, those were some of the things she brought up in the post-game interview with Gene, using some of the same terminology I used, and I'm sitting there, chuckling, thinking "did Heidi read my post?"
mickjagger
#28 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:15:25 PM(UTC)

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Marshfield: 20 - 21 - 14 - 13 --- 68
at W Rapids: 11 - 12- 14 - 14 --- 51

Final Score

Turnovers:
Marshfield: 14
W Rapids: 22

Free Throws:
Marshfield: 7-9
W Rapids: 11-16

Scoring:
Marshfield: Michaelis - 19, Molter- 12, Kummer -10, Goeppinger - 8, Zuelke - 6, Fehrenbach - 5, Hubler - 4, Zimmerman - 2, Gilbertson -2

Wisconsin Rapids: Hansen - 19, Newman - 10,, Lanfholff -9, Paitel - 6, Easterly - 5, Kynse - 2

Records
Marshfield : 7-5 Overall, 2-3 WVC
Wisconsin Rapids: 3-9 Overall, 1-5 WVC
blugold94
#29 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:30:06 AM(UTC)
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1/15:

Wausau East 23 @ Merrill 41

Merrill ties DCE and SPASH for first place in the WVC at 4-1 but lost all-conference forward Renee Sladek with a knee injury in the first quarter. She was shown on crutches after that.....obviously would be a huge blow for the Blue Jays if she is out for any significant time.

Wausau West 56 @ DC Everest 44

With only 7 players in uniform, West goes to a zone and hands DCE their first WVC loss. Jasmin Samz scored 19 of her game-high 21 in the first half while Caity Coleman, Anna Brown, and Katy Cihlar each had 10 points as West stays in league title race in must-win game. Everest had only 6 two-point baskets as zone kept DCE from the lane...Everest hit 9 three pointers but never got closer than five in the second half. DCE hosts SPASH in first place showdown on Friday.
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blugold94
#30 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 8:53:12 AM(UTC)
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Merrill's Renee Sladek to have MRI on injured knee today....hope for the best for her.

http://www.wausaudailyhe...Merrill-s-Sladek-set-MRI
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blugold94
#31 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 12:42:48 PM(UTC)
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Wausau East @ Wausau West.......girls/boys DH......girls at 6 p.m. on 1230 WXCO-AM and www.1230wxco.com
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mickjagger
#32 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 11:50:56 PM(UTC)

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mickjagger wrote:
Friday, 1/18

at Marshfield - 35
Merrill - 19

Halftime

Merrill presumably playing w/o All-WVC junior forward and WVC POY candidate Renee Sladek, who suffered a knee injury Tueday night in Merrill's victory over Wausau East.

Final Scores:

at Marshfield 66
Merrill 39

Recap & Box Score:
http://www.marshfieldnew...-up-heat?nclick_check=1

Rice Lake 48
at Chippewa Falls 63

SPASH 40
at DC Everest 29

Wausau East 44
at Wausau West 46

Eden Prairie, MN 66
at Superior 48
blugold94
#33 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:38:46 AM(UTC)
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Merrill's Renee Sladek has torn ACL

http://www.wausaudailyhe...orn-ACL-sidelines-Sladek
@ChadHolmesWI
mickjagger
#34 Posted : Wednesday, January 23, 2013 1:23:54 AM(UTC)

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at Marshfield: 19 - 12 - 15 - 19 --- 65
Chippewa Falls: 12 - 11 - 13 - 27 --- 63

Final Score

Darien Molter led Marshfield with 24 pts, including 8-10 FT's in the 4th qtr. Courtney Passint came off the bench to lead Chi-Hi with 16 pts, most of which were scored on 12-15' jumpers.

Marshfield had an 11-pt lead in the 3rd qtr that was squandered, in part, due to being assessed 3 very questionable charging calls on made baskets. Instead of getting the 2 pts plus 1, the Tiger guards were being assessed their 4th fouls, Chi-Hi got possession of the ball in each case and scored. Those 4-6 pt swings, 3 times over, allowed Chippewa Falls back into a game they had no business being in at that time. With Tiger guards Molter & Hummer on the bench with 4 fouls each, Chi-Hi's rally led to a brief 3-pt lead in the 4th qtr. Marshfield finally regained control of the game in the final 3 minutes once Kummer & Molter returned and began driving the lane again, drawing fouls on the Cardinals and going to the line converting free throws, instead of being called for charging fouls like they were in the 3rd qtr.

I attended the game in person and witnessed the travesties on the charging calls with my own eyes. The calls were so blatantlly poor that Marshfield Coach Heidi Michaelis, uncharacteristically, mentioned them and the resulting 4-6 pt swings in her opening comments during her post-game radio interview. Her words: "...they weren't called the way I saw them ..." Nor the way I saw them, Heidi, or probably anyone else in the Marshfield Fieldhouse, save for the Chi-Hi bench and the young man in stripes who blew the whistle all 3 times.

CHI-HI: Loiselle 4, Passint 16, Fjelstad 9, Bedford 13, Adams 3, Hanley 7, Roshell 9. (21, 14-17, 21, 63)

MARSHFIELD: Molter 24, Zuelke 4, Michaelis 10, Zimmerman 4, Kummer 16, Fehrenbach 7. (19, 19-26, 18. 65)

3-Point Goals: Chi-Hi (5): Bedford 3, Adams 1, Hanley 1. Marshfield (8): Molter 2, Michaelis 2, Kummer 4.

Fouled out: Chi-Hi: Bedford. Marshfield: None.

Records: Marshfield - 9-5, Chippewa Falls - 11-4
blugold94
#35 Posted : Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:40:56 PM(UTC)
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I certainly hope Marshfield gets a fair shake at Wausau West on Friday night.....7 p.m. pregame, 7:30 p.m. tip on WXCO-AM 1230 and online at www.1230wxco.com
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afan1
#36 Posted : Wednesday, January 23, 2013 2:25:09 PM(UTC)

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With all due respect Mick. This is THE most difficult call to make in basketball. A lot is left up for interpretation. Blocking, by definition, is personal contact which impedes the progress of an offensive player. This call is made when a defender bumps into, or impedes an offensive player's progress with their body. Charging is personal contact called against the offense, with or without the ball, usually because the offensive player pushes, or runs through a defender. When judging a block/charge, officials are supposed to use the following principles: 1) Does the defender establish an initial legal guarding position? 2) Does the defender remain stationary or does he move laterally or backwards in order to maintain the guarding position? 3) In moving to maintain the guarding position, are one or both feet on the floor while doing so? 4) Is the defensive player on the spot first? Bascially, everyone has a right to their position on the court, whether it's the offense or the defense. If either one violates that space, then a block/charge will be called.

I give little value to the coaches take and that of most fans on this call due to obvious bias. I look more for consistency in the charge/block call. I think most officials do a dang good job. Do I agree with all calls...nope, that is why I bring suckers to keep in my mouth during those times that test ones " good sport attitude".

I had to honestly laugh at some of my own teams fans the other night as they were yelling for a 5 second when no defensive player ( our team ) was within 10/12 feet of the player with the ball.
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mickjagger
#37 Posted : Wednesday, January 23, 2013 7:59:09 PM(UTC)

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afan1 wrote:
With all due respect Mick. This is THE most difficult call to make in basketball. A lot is left up for interpretation. Blocking, by definition, is personal contact which impedes the progress of an offensive player. This call is made when a defender bumps into, or impedes an offensive player's progress with their body. Charging is personal contact called against the offense, with or without the ball, usually because the offensive player pushes, or runs through a defender. When judging a block/charge, officials are supposed to use the following principles: 1) Does the defender establish an initial legal guarding position? 2) Does the defender remain stationary or does he move laterally or backwards in order to maintain the guarding position? 3) In moving to maintain the guarding position, are one or both feet on the floor while doing so? 4) Is the defensive player on the spot first? Bascially, everyone has a right to their position on the court, whether it's the offense or the defense. If either one violates that space, then a block/charge will be called.

I give little value to the coaches take and that of most fans on this call due to obvious bias. I look more for consistency in the charge/block call. I think most officials do a dang good job. Do I agree with all calls...nope, that is why I bring suckers to keep in my mouth during those times that test ones " good sport attitude".

I had to honestly laugh at some of my own teams fans the other night as they were yelling for a 5 second when no defensive player ( our team ) was within 10/12 feet of the player with the ball.

I understand the principles that determine whether a call is charging or blocking. I've been around the game as either a player, coach or fan for 50 years. I comprehend the concepts of the defender establishing his/her position. I undrstand the concept of which player got to a spot first. I also understand that a defender cannot impede an offensive players momemtum by stepping/sliding in front of that player with out allowing the offensive player his/her next step. The defender also cannot undercut a player in the air, i.e by moving in under a player driving to the basket. And, a defender cannot hip-check a player driving past them.

In my initial post, I referred to the calls as questionable. I did so very consciously, realizing that no matter the call, the official always has the best view of what actually happened. However, my private opinions were only confirmed when the Marshfield coach voiced her displeasure with the calls in her post-game radio comments, which I caught when I reached my vehicle after the game. 4-6-point swings on 3 similarly questionable calls, which also puts your starting guards (who ended up scoring 40 pts between themselves) on the bench with 4 fouls apiece for about 7 minutes is a lot to absorb. I understand the reference to the penalized team's fans and coach being biased. However, understand that Marshfield was in control with an 11-pt lead when the controversial calls ocurred and that Coach Michaelis is one of the most respected girls high school coaches in the state, very even-keeled emotionally, very credible, tons of integrity and high-profile in the sense that she has been one of the color-commentators for several years on the state tournament TV broadcasts. For her to openly question the officiating, publicly on the radio, following the game, is so out of character for her but enough to reinforce my opinion.

The officiating crew was very young. Looked like college kids. Now, I don't automatially equate youth with incompetence but I do equate youth with inexperience. One half of this officiating crew was very professional, very confident in his calls and went out of his way several times to check in with both coaches as to why certain calls were made. His counterpart was shaky before before the 3 questionable calls. He was hestitant, and somewhat retiring before the 1st waved off basket+1 call. After absorbing the crowd's reaction and Coach MIchaelis' dismay, it almost seemed as if the official in question became defiant. His body language changed and he took on a look of fire in his eyes. 2 more similar calls followed quickly. He also didn' have the decency to explain his calls to Coach Michaelis when she protested. He left those duties to the other more composed, professional official (not that either official has to explain anything).

My initial post wasn't born of sour grapes. Marshfield won. The Tigers played well. Chippewa Falls has some talented players, is very well-coached and plays very hard. Marshfield did a good job of taking Chi-Hi's best player, Kayla Hanley out of the game, offensively, limiting her to 7 points. My primary objective in portraying the questionable charging calls was to explain how a game in which Marshfield was seemingly in control, suddenly got out of hand. One cannot deny the three 4-6-pt swings because of turnovers. And one cannot deny the fact that those turnovers were 3 charging calls that could've and probably should've been 2 pt baskets +1 for Marshfield. And one cannot deny that those calls cost Marshfield the services of its starting guards for about 7 minutes. That's all.

Oh yeah, and one more thing. There was a photographer from Chippewa Falls with 3 cameras hanging around his neck moving around the Marshfield Fieldhouse during the game. I know this because at one point he came into the bleachers where I was sitting and introduced himself to a couple of high school scouts who were sitting in front of me. After the game, as the officials were exiting the court, the photographer and the official in question, upon seeing one another, exchanged a big high-five. I found that kind of odd.
mickjagger
#38 Posted : Wednesday, January 23, 2013 9:45:31 PM(UTC)

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blugold94 wrote:
I certainly hope Marshfield gets a fair shake at Wausau West on Friday night.....7 p.m. pregame, 7:30 p.m. tip on WXCO-AM 1230 and online at www.1230wxco.com

I assume every team in every game is going to get a fair shake. I never think otherwise unless shown otherwise. Officials have a difficult job. Their job, IMO, is to monitor the game by upholding its rules and integrity and identifying the infractions. The vast majority of officials perform their responsibilities impeccably along with maximum integrity. Their job is not to determine the outcome of a game. The performances by the players from the competing teams should determine the outcome of the athletic contest. Because of our imperfection as human beings, athletic officials err from time to time just as we all do. That is to be expected. However, when said error is repeated several times in a contest affecting one team more than the other, frustration sets in. The players, coaches, parents & fans have too much time, effort, hard work & emotion invested in these contests to have an official begin to affect the game's outcome.

To infer or to imply that Marshfield might not get a fair shake in Wausau Friday night I'm assuming is a response to my criticism of one of the officials from Tuesday night's girls b-ball game between Chi-Hi and Marshfield. It was an isolated circumstance. I don't believe I incessantly complain about officials on here. However, if I think officiating adversely affected a game or its outcome in some way, I'm probably going to mention it. That was the case here.
blugold94
#39 Posted : Thursday, January 24, 2013 11:04:44 AM(UTC)
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In response to the IM I received......Mick feel free to bring up anything you want. You seem to feel like I'm coming after you and that's not the case. When I post something I tend not to just come on and say...."everything you said is right Mick...." I tend to respond to things I disagree with and find that more interesting.

I thought a message board was for give and take. I don't think anything I've posted has gone after you in a personal way.....and if you find my tongue-in-cheek response to your critique on the science of calling the charge to be too much that's on you. It wasn't to infer or imply they won't get a fair shake on Friday....it was a joke. I should know by now you don't respond well to jokes and take it all seriously. You wrote one sentence on Molter's big game and two long paragraphs on the officials. That's why I wrote a short jab. Beating Chippewa Falls is a big thing for Marshfield and you spend nearly all the time complaining about the officials. I'm not a big fan of hearing long responses on the shortcomings of the officials. I know they happen.....more often than anyone would like, but it is what it is.

I appreciate your passion for high school sports and wish more people had it and talked about it..... and want you to say everything on your mind. But don't take responses personal if they disagree with yours. When you click "post" and put things out there, you are inviting responses and judgement on what you said. People disagree with me all the time and frankly I don't care....I trust my judgment. Trust yours and whether or not I or anyone else agrees it won't matter and it won't bug you.





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beaker8568
#40 Posted : Thursday, January 24, 2013 1:07:27 PM(UTC)
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I looked up the refs from the game and they are both experienced very good officials. Neither is from Marshfield or Chippewa.

This was a huge win for Marshfield and that is what the focus of this conversation should be. That is two big seeding meeting wins for the Tigers recently over North and Chippewa. And to do this damage without Tiffany Stargardt is even more of an accomplishment for the Tigers.

Big game Friday who shows up, the West team that played at DCE last week or the one that hosted East last Friday???
mickjagger
#41 Posted : Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:01:01 PM(UTC)

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blugold94 wrote:
In response to the IM I received......Mick feel free to bring up anything you want. You seem to feel like I'm coming after you and that's not the case. When I post something I tend not to just come on and say...."everything you said is right Mick...." I tend to respond to things I disagree with and find that more interesting.

I thought a message board was for give and take. I don't think anything I've posted has gone after you in a personal way.....and if you find my tongue-in-cheek response to your critique on the science of calling the charge to be too much that's on you. It wasn't to infer or imply they won't get a fair shake on Friday....it was a joke. I should know by now you don't respond well to jokes and take it all seriously. You wrote one sentence on Molter's big game and two long paragraphs on the officials. That's why I wrote a short jab. Beating Chippewa Falls is a big thing for Marshfield and you spend nearly all the time complaining about the officials. I'm not a big fan of hearing long responses on the shortcomings of the officials. I know they happen.....more often than anyone would like, but it is what it is.

I appreciate your passion for high school sports and wish more people had it and talked about it..... and want you to say everything on your mind. But don't take responses personal if they disagree with yours. When you click "post" and put things out there, you are inviting responses and judgement on what you said. People disagree with me all the time and frankly I don't care....I trust my judgment. Trust yours and whether or not I or anyone else agrees it won't matter and it won't bug you.

Not real happy Blugold that you chose to respond to a p.m. from me to you in a public fashion There's a reason I conveyed my concerns in the form of a p.m. ...... to keep the discussion between you and me, and thereby avoid any potential fallout or dirty laundry from being aired in public. I felt my concerns were between you and me .... not between you, me and the WSN nation, which is why I attempted to discuss them privately.

That's as far as I'm going on this forum. I wll send you another p.m. (which is an abbreviation for personal message) to reply to your public response to my original p.m.
faststew
#42 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2013 12:22:48 PM(UTC)

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I know the ref thing can really get under ones skin guys. Ive never thought in a regular season game officials were really bias. Playoffs are a different story i believe, ive witnessed isolated cases. Touchy subject, i dont freak out on refs anymore because it wont change anything. If anything, it can get worse for your team i think. I share Micks passion for high school sports and enjoy some of his posts.Why? He speaks his mind even if it opens himself up to critisism.
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mickjagger
#43 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2013 9:19:26 PM(UTC)

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at Wausau West 64
Marshfield 54

Final Score

Marshfield comes back from 19 down to make the final score somewhat respectable (depending on one's perspective).

Marshfield Head Coach Heidi Michaelis was ejected in the 3rd qtr after incurring double technical fouls.

Scoring:
Marshfield: Ellie Fehrenbach 14, Ellie Kummer 11, Darian Molter 11, Caitlin Michaelis 8, Natalie Zuelke 4, Kailey Hubler 4, Gilbertson 2

Wausau West: Jasmin Samz 25, Caity Coleman 14, Anna Brown 12, Katie Cihlar 8, Keirra Kohlbeck 6

Personal Fouls: Marshfield 22, Wausau West 10

Free Throws: Marshfield 6-6, Wausau West 23-27

Turnovers: Marshfield 4, Wausau West 12

Records: Marshfield 9-6 Overall, 3-4 Wisconsin Valley Conference. Wausau West: 10-6 Overall, 6-2 WVC
mickjagger
#44 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2013 1:31:23 AM(UTC)

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blugold94 wrote:
I certainly hope Marshfield gets a fair shake at Wausau West on Friday night.....7 p.m. pregame, 7:30 p.m. tip on WXCO-AM 1230 and online at www.1230wxco.com

I didn't attend the game. However, by all accounts, it sounds as if things went quite smoothly .......

Just the facts: Marshfield Head Coach Heidi Michaelis was ejected from the game early in the 3rd qtr after being assessed consecutive technical fouls. Wausau West was 23-27 at the free throw line while Marshfield went 6-6. Wausau West was whistled for 10 fouls in the game while Marshfield committed 22.

The Graphic Details and Box Score:
http://www.marshfieldnew...est-gets-past-Marshfield
blugold94
#45 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2013 1:32:24 PM(UTC)
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mickjagger wrote:
blugold94 wrote:
I certainly hope Marshfield gets a fair shake at Wausau West on Friday night.....7 p.m. pregame, 7:30 p.m. tip on WXCO-AM 1230 and online at www.1230wxco.com

I didn't attend the game. However, by all accounts, it sounds as if things went quite smoothly .......

Just the facts: Marshfield Head Coach Heidi Michaelis was ejected from the game early in the 3rd qtr after being assessed consecutive technical fouls. Wausau West was 23-27 at the free throw line while Marshfield went 6-6. Wausau West was whistled for 10 fouls in the game while Marshfield committed 22.

The Graphic Details and Box Score:
http://www.marshfieldnew...est-gets-past-Marshfield


Your right those are the facts.....but it had nothing to do with Marshfield sitting outside the whole first half taking three-pointers that never fell or having no inside game while West was going to the basket? Doesn't matter what style you play, fouls and free throws should always be equal right?

West came out there and took it to Marshfield on this night.
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mickjagger
#46 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12:45 PM(UTC)

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blugold94 wrote:
mickjagger wrote:
blugold94 wrote:
I certainly hope Marshfield gets a fair shake at Wausau West on Friday night.....7 p.m. pregame, 7:30 p.m. tip on WXCO-AM 1230 and online at www.1230wxco.com

I didn't attend the game. However, by all accounts, it sounds as if things went quite smoothly .......

Just the facts: Marshfield Head Coach Heidi Michaelis was ejected from the game early in the 3rd qtr after being assessed consecutive technical fouls. Wausau West was 23-27 at the free throw line while Marshfield went 6-6. Wausau West was whistled for 10 fouls in the game while Marshfield committed 22.

The Graphic Details and Box Score:
http://www.marshfieldnew...est-gets-past-Marshfield


Your right those are the facts.....but it had nothing to do with Marshfield sitting outside the whole first half taking three-pointers that never fell or having no inside game while West was going to the basket? Doesn't matter what style you play, fouls and free throws should always be equal right?

West came out there and took it to Marshfield on this night.

No need to get defensive bg. Talk about not being able to take a little jab ....

I acknowledged on the WSN girls scores thread last night, in the 1st half, that Marshfield was shooting very poorly and being cleaned up by West on the boards. Listening to the game, it was evident, the Tigers were jacking up all kinds of shots from the outside, especially in the 1st half. Normally a very good shooting team (Michaelis, Kummer, Molter & Fehrenbach can all shoot the 3-ball), the shots just weren't falling. I'm sure West's defense had something to do with that. Without Courtney Bauer this season and Tiffany Stargardt, out while nursing knee problems, Marshfield's inside offense, inside defense and rebounding has dropped off noticeably.

I posted the stats which I had access to that contributed to the complexion of the game. Unfortunately, I don't have the #'s on either team's shooting %'s for the game. I wish I did, I'd like to see them myself. If I had them I would've posted them, as they certainly contributed to the outcome. I suspect Marshfield's shooting % was fairly low and West's pretty high, especially in the 1st half. I also have not seen the rebounding totals, but again suspect they were most like greatly skewed in favor of West, especially, again, in the 1st half. If I had the rebounding totals, I would've posted them also, as they, too, impacted the outcome of the game. Combined, the shooting %'s and rebounding totals, I'm quite sure, would've added to the statistical story as to how & why Wausau West won this game. As it was, I shared the team stats which I did have access to.

As I stated in my earlier post, I wasn't at the Mrashfield-West game (as I was Tuesday night when Marshfield entertained CHI-HI). Therefore I don't feel qualified to comment on the foul disparity or Coach Michaelis' ejection. However, from what the newspaper link states and from what I gathered from a few Marshfield cronies whom I spoke with today and who attended the game in Wausau last night, it appears the foundation for Heidi's vehement protests which led to her ejection, was her players being knocked to the deck a few times on drives to the basket and no foul calls being made. Based on all accounts, she apparently felt she wasn't getting the same call that West was getting on the other end of the court. Again, I wasn't there, so I cannot offer a personal opinion based on my own observation.
blussier
#47 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:37:24 AM(UTC)
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Game is online at http://wiaa.playonsports.com/events/37918 . Ejection happens around 52:00 mark. Don't know what was said, but the 2nd T was ridiculously quick.
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mickjagger
#48 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:31:00 PM(UTC)

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blussier wrote:
Game is online at http://wiaa.playonsports.com/events/37918 . Ejection happens around 52:00 mark. Don't know what was said, but the 2nd T was ridiculously quick.

Thanks for the link, blussier.

After watching the replay of the game, I feel the game was officiated quite well by the 3 veteran officials. Marshfield shot poorly, especially in the 1st half, and was out-rebounded badly by Wausau West, who appears to a be a physically bigger and stronger team than Marshfield. The Warriors also played a great game defensively, at least through 3 quarters. Their man-to-man defense really kept up with Marshfield's quick, sharp-shooting guards, Molter, Kummer and Michaelis.

The disparity in the # of fouls in the game, favoring West, was warranted, IMO. In fact, there were several non-calls in the game. Calls that, had they been made, may have even added to Marshfield's atrocious foul total. Marshfield's guards committed some stupid fouls by reaching in and grabbing on steal attempts. I felt the officials allowed the girls to mix it up pretty good on the inside.

The call that led to Coach Michaelis' ejection was a non-call. Marshfield's Caitlin Michaelis was driving the lane when she encountered a host of West defenders approximately 5-7' in front of the basket. It appears that at least one of the West defenders had established herself and was set. Michaelis went up into the trio of West defenders and was knocked down. The call probably could've gone either way, but if there was foul to be called, I would've ruled that Michaelis was guilty of charging. It went as a "no-call." Marshfield picked the ball up off the floor and scored on a lay-up. Coach Michaelis apparently saw it differently. She immediately said something to the sideline official right in front of the Marshfield bench (not the official closest to the play). He quickly T'd her up. Instead of walking away or sitting down at that point, Coach Michaelis takes another step in the direction of the official and says something else. That'll get you another T every time ..... and it did.

Up until the point of the technical fouls, it appears Michaelis was not really questioning the large # of fouls which Marshfield was incurring throughout the game. At least she wasn't outwardly demonstrative. I only saw one instance, prior to the ejection, where she seemingly spoke with one of the officials about a call. Which leads me to wonder if Coach Michaelis was really that upset with the non-call which led to her ejection or if drawing the technicals was a ploy to light a fire under her team, which, up to that point, was playing about as poorly as they possibly could.

One thing I 'm fairly certain of is this: The D-1 Section One regional featuring DC Everest, Eau Claire North, Chippewa Falls, Wausau West, Marshfield and Superior is going to be hotly contested and the regional winner will definitely have earned it.
duball
#49 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 10:13:32 PM(UTC)
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mickjagger wrote:
blussier wrote:
Game is online at http://wiaa.playonsports.com/events/37918 . Ejection happens around 52:00 mark. Don't know what was said, but the 2nd T was ridiculously quick.

Thanks for the link, blussier.

After watching the replay of the game, I feel the game was officiated quite well by the 3 veteran officials. Marshfield shot poorly, especially in the 1st half, and was out-rebounded badly by Wausau West, who appears to a be a physically bigger and stronger team than Marshfield. The Warriors also played a great game defensively, at least through 3 quarters. Their man-to-man defense really kept up with Marshfield's quick, sharp-shooting guards, Molter, Kummer and Michaelis.

The disparity in the # of fouls in the game, favoring West, was warranted, IMO. In fact, there were several non-calls in the game. Calls that, had they been made, may have even added to Marshfield's atrocious foul total. Marshfield's guards committed some stupid fouls by reaching in and grabbing on steal attempts. I felt the officials allowed the girls to mix it up pretty good on the inside.

The call that led to Coach Michaelis' ejection was a non-call. Marshfield's Caitlin Michaelis was driving the lane when she encountered a host of West defenders approximately 5-7' in front of the basket. It appears that at least one of the West defenders had established herself and was set. Michaelis went up into the trio of West defenders and was knocked down. The call probably could've gone either way, but if there was foul to be called, I would've ruled that Michaelis was guilty of charging. It went as a "no-call." Marshfield picked the ball up off the floor and scored on a lay-up. Coach Michaelis apparently saw it differently. She immediately said something to the sideline official right in front of the Marshfield bench (not the official closest to the play). He quickly T'd her up. Instead of walking away or sitting down at that point, Coach Michaelis takes another step in the direction of the official and says something else. That'll get you another T every time ..... and it did.

Up until the point of the technical fouls, it appears Michaelis was not really questioning the large # of fouls which Marshfield was incurring throughout the game. At least she wasn't outwardly demonstrative. I only saw one instance, prior to the ejection, where she seemingly spoke with one of the officials about a call. Which leads me to wonder if Coach Michaelis was really that upset with the non-call which led to her ejection or if drawing the technicals was a ploy to light a fire under her team, which, up to that point, was playing about as poorly as they possibly could.

One thing I 'm fairly certain of is this: The D-1 Section One regional featuring DC Everest, Eau Claire North, Chippewa Falls, Wausau West, Marshfield and Superior is going to be hotly contested and the regional winner will definitely have earned it.

Can't leave out Memorial came just about as close to beating superior as possible. When Gruber and Novak are on this a dangerous team. Outside superior at the 1 the seed meeting in self should be interesting. Marshfield is 2-0 vs BRC but 3-5 in WVc and the WVC is balanced at the top.
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mickjagger
#50 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 9:03:18 PM(UTC)

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mickjagger wrote:
mickjagger wrote:
SPASH 19
at Marshfield 5

End of 1st Qtr

Marshfield playing without sophomore center Ellie Fehrenbach and head coach Heidi Michaelis.

SPASH 35
at Marshfield 19

Halftime

Marshfield shot 6-25 (24%) in the 1st half, while SPASH hit on 15-24 (54%) of their shots.

SPASH 59
at Marshfield 40

Final Score

Recap & Box Score:
http://www.marshfieldnew...t-strong-finish-Panthers
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