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Shot Clock for HS games
blade12
#176 Posted : Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:51:57 AM(UTC)
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traviswilson wrote:
I'll be at the meeting in Mauston tomorrow and will try to get to the bottom of this 80% coach support number that keeps getting tossed out. So far, I've found no actual paper trail of the survey. No coach I've asked has been able to provide an email or anything. The WBCA can't provide any info, results, or verification of it. I still think it may have been an NFHS/WIAA survey, of which I don't believe all coaches got it. Certainly, I'd guess that an actual coach survey may show more than 50% support for it, but I would be completely shocked if the real number was 80%. I've seen and conducted surveys for multiple sports, and have almost never seen 80% of coaches support anything, let alone something pretty controversial like this.



buzzerbeater2
#177 Posted : Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:56:22 AM(UTC)

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1) Easy fix for soccer: Smaller nets, no goalie.

2) Not a ruse to get kids playing bball year round. I know we needed more contact days because many of the kids we taught as youth players got recruited to go elsewhere for high school, so we need to teach more kids new things to compete against the kids we already taught.

3) I wish I could have bought stock in this situation. I would be a rich man.

4) I said it before, I'll say it again: The shot clock is an answer to a question that was never asked.
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traviswilson
#178 Posted : Tuesday, September 12, 2017 11:33:36 AM(UTC)

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Update: the WBCA plans to conduct a full survey of all head coaches this fall around the time of the WBCA Clinic (Oct. 5-6).

The indication is that the 80% support number is actually from a survey that is 2-3 years old. And I'm still not sure if it was a WBCA or WIAA survey. Hope to get clarification tomorrow.
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thecrackerjack
#179 Posted : Tuesday, September 12, 2017 12:20:18 PM(UTC)

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traviswilson wrote:
Update: the WBCA plans to conduct a full survey of all head coaches this fall around the time of the WBCA Clinic (Oct. 5-6).

The indication is that the 80% support number is actually from a survey that is 2-3 years old. And I'm still not sure if it was a WBCA or WIAA survey. Hope to get clarification tomorrow.


That is really good news.
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blade12
#180 Posted : Tuesday, September 12, 2017 12:54:43 PM(UTC)
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traviswilson wrote:
Update: the WBCA plans to conduct a full survey of all head coaches this fall around the time of the WBCA Clinic (Oct. 5-6).

The indication is that the 80% support number is actually from a survey that is 2-3 years old. And I'm still not sure if it was a WBCA or WIAA survey. Hope to get clarification tomorrow.


Wait... they voted not to revisit the issue.

***EDIT*** That was the WIAA that voted not to revisit.
hodor64
#181 Posted : Tuesday, September 12, 2017 1:28:18 PM(UTC)

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buzzerbeater2 wrote:
1) Easy fix for soccer: Smaller nets, no goalie.

2) Not a ruse to get kids playing bball year round. I know we needed more contact days because many of the kids we taught as youth players got recruited to go elsewhere for high school, so we need to teach more kids new things to compete against the kids we already taught.

3) I wish I could have bought stock in this situation. I would be a rich man.

4) I said it before, I'll say it again: The shot clock is an answer to a question that was never asked.

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blade12
#182 Posted : Wednesday, September 13, 2017 7:00:09 AM(UTC)
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Why isn't the WIAA the ones conducting any survey on this?

Does anyone really trust the WBCA to report accurate and valid numbers on this after they have already reported 80% support on a survey that does not exist?


blade12
#183 Posted : Wednesday, September 13, 2017 12:41:10 PM(UTC)
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Can't wait to read Travis' recap of today's area meeting. Just from responses on Twitter it sounds like this is a complete mess.

baker18
#184 Posted : Wednesday, September 13, 2017 12:51:20 PM(UTC)
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blade12 wrote:
Can't wait to read Travis' recap of today's area meeting. Just from responses on Twitter it sounds like this is a complete mess.




Talking to one of the most highly respected coaches in the state, I believe no matter what happens at these meetings the shot clock is here to stay. With schools already installing or already having them installed and the cost of each clock, why would they make those schools take them down. This coach believes that this wont be a trial like it originally was supposed to be that once the schools spend the money to get them put in no point to remove them
blade12
#185 Posted : Wednesday, September 13, 2017 1:04:51 PM(UTC)
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baker18 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Can't wait to read Travis' recap of today's area meeting. Just from responses on Twitter it sounds like this is a complete mess.




Talking to one of the most highly respected coaches in the state, I believe no matter what happens at these meetings the shot clock is here to stay. With schools already installing or already having them installed and the cost of each clock, why would they make those schools take them down. This coach believes that this wont be a trial like it originally was supposed to be that once the schools spend the money to get them put in no point to remove them


Another highly respected coach is out telling people 80% of HS coaches want this but only like 1/3 of all coaches completed the survey if there ever really was one.

For as dumb as it was for the WIAA to run with this without school input, it's even more stupid for the schools to spend the money on a SC knowing they haven't had any input into this yet. They knew this was going to be a topic of discussion at area meetings and probably the annual meeting. It's not like the SC needed to be installed by Nov 2017.

Today even the Exec Dir of the WIAA, Dave Anderson, told schools not to buy shot clocks yet.

My take away from the comments on Twitter today, The WIAA circumvented the schools and they are not happy about that at all. They even asked what the process was to remove the BOC.
coach40
#186 Posted : Wednesday, September 13, 2017 1:59:22 PM(UTC)

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baker18 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Can't wait to read Travis' recap of today's area meeting. Just from responses on Twitter it sounds like this is a complete mess.




Talking to one of the most highly respected coaches in the state, I believe no matter what happens at these meetings the shot clock is here to stay. With schools already installing or already having them installed and the cost of each clock, why would they make those schools take them down. This coach believes that this wont be a trial like it originally was supposed to be that once the schools spend the money to get them put in no point to remove them



That is their own foolishness. There are more schools who HAVE NOT paid for it than those that have so why should they be "punished" due to some quick triggered people?
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blade12
#187 Posted : Wednesday, September 13, 2017 2:42:00 PM(UTC)
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coach40 wrote:
baker18 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Can't wait to read Travis' recap of today's area meeting. Just from responses on Twitter it sounds like this is a complete mess.




Talking to one of the most highly respected coaches in the state, I believe no matter what happens at these meetings the shot clock is here to stay. With schools already installing or already having them installed and the cost of each clock, why would they make those schools take them down. This coach believes that this wont be a trial like it originally was supposed to be that once the schools spend the money to get them put in no point to remove them



That is there own foolishness. There are more schools who HAVE NOT paid for it than those that have so why should they be "punished" due to some quick triggered people?


I see both sides, the WIAA voted to have a SC so some schools went out to get that installed (although very, very early since it doesn't go into effect for 2 more years). No idea what any AD/School would be thinking since this was such a hot topic for discussion. Who approved that expenditure before the area meetings were even held?

I have no idea how many schools already put this in but laughed a few weeks ago when one school asked the other school if they saved their receipts?

Maybe the WBCA should sponsor and pay for it at every HS since this is their baby. Have them put their money where their mouth is.
thecrackerjack
#188 Posted : Thursday, September 14, 2017 6:58:58 AM(UTC)

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blade12 wrote:
coach40 wrote:
baker18 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Can't wait to read Travis' recap of today's area meeting. Just from responses on Twitter it sounds like this is a complete mess.




Talking to one of the most highly respected coaches in the state, I believe no matter what happens at these meetings the shot clock is here to stay. With schools already installing or already having them installed and the cost of each clock, why would they make those schools take them down. This coach believes that this wont be a trial like it originally was supposed to be that once the schools spend the money to get them put in no point to remove them



That is there own foolishness. There are more schools who HAVE NOT paid for it than those that have so why should they be "punished" due to some quick triggered people?


I see both sides, the WIAA voted to have a SC so some schools went out to get that installed (although very, very early since it doesn't go into effect for 2 more years). No idea what any AD/School would be thinking since this was such a hot topic for discussion. Who approved that expenditure before the area meetings were even held?

I have no idea how many schools already put this in but laughed a few weeks ago when one school asked the other school if they saved their receipts?

Maybe the WBCA should sponsor and pay for it at every HS since this is their baby. Have them put their money where their mouth is.


Yeah, I don't see both sides. See the bolded in your post for reasoning.
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blade12
#189 Posted : Thursday, September 14, 2017 7:17:53 AM(UTC)
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thecrackerjack wrote:
blade12 wrote:
coach40 wrote:
baker18 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Can't wait to read Travis' recap of today's area meeting. Just from responses on Twitter it sounds like this is a complete mess.




Talking to one of the most highly respected coaches in the state, I believe no matter what happens at these meetings the shot clock is here to stay. With schools already installing or already having them installed and the cost of each clock, why would they make those schools take them down. This coach believes that this wont be a trial like it originally was supposed to be that once the schools spend the money to get them put in no point to remove them



That is there own foolishness. There are more schools who HAVE NOT paid for it than those that have so why should they be "punished" due to some quick triggered people?


I see both sides, the WIAA voted to have a SC so some schools went out to get that installed (although very, very early since it doesn't go into effect for 2 more years). No idea what any AD/School would be thinking since this was such a hot topic for discussion. Who approved that expenditure before the area meetings were even held?

I have no idea how many schools already put this in but laughed a few weeks ago when one school asked the other school if they saved their receipts?

Maybe the WBCA should sponsor and pay for it at every HS since this is their baby. Have them put their money where their mouth is.


Yeah, I don't see both sides. See the bolded in your post for reasoning.


Schools that went out and spent the money already were only following the rule as passed and announced by the WIAA.

Given the objections over this were they smart for doing so, probably not. But were they wrong for doing so, probably not.
thecrackerjack
#190 Posted : Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:33:03 AM(UTC)

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blade12 wrote:
thecrackerjack wrote:
blade12 wrote:
coach40 wrote:
baker18 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Can't wait to read Travis' recap of today's area meeting. Just from responses on Twitter it sounds like this is a complete mess.




Talking to one of the most highly respected coaches in the state, I believe no matter what happens at these meetings the shot clock is here to stay. With schools already installing or already having them installed and the cost of each clock, why would they make those schools take them down. This coach believes that this wont be a trial like it originally was supposed to be that once the schools spend the money to get them put in no point to remove them



That is there own foolishness. There are more schools who HAVE NOT paid for it than those that have so why should they be "punished" due to some quick triggered people?


I see both sides, the WIAA voted to have a SC so some schools went out to get that installed (although very, very early since it doesn't go into effect for 2 more years). No idea what any AD/School would be thinking since this was such a hot topic for discussion. Who approved that expenditure before the area meetings were even held?

I have no idea how many schools already put this in but laughed a few weeks ago when one school asked the other school if they saved their receipts?

Maybe the WBCA should sponsor and pay for it at every HS since this is their baby. Have them put their money where their mouth is.


Yeah, I don't see both sides. See the bolded in your post for reasoning.


Schools that went out and spent the money already were only following the rule as passed and announced by the WIAA.

Given the objections over this were they smart for doing so, probably not. But were they wrong for doing so, probably not.


Aren't ADs the ones complaining about cost? Why spend the money when it is so far off yet, and there's a lot of discussion yet to take place? That's on them, not the WIAA.
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blade12
#191 Posted : Thursday, September 14, 2017 9:18:29 AM(UTC)
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thecrackerjack wrote:
blade12 wrote:
thecrackerjack wrote:
blade12 wrote:
coach40 wrote:
baker18 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Can't wait to read Travis' recap of today's area meeting. Just from responses on Twitter it sounds like this is a complete mess.




Talking to one of the most highly respected coaches in the state, I believe no matter what happens at these meetings the shot clock is here to stay. With schools already installing or already having them installed and the cost of each clock, why would they make those schools take them down. This coach believes that this wont be a trial like it originally was supposed to be that once the schools spend the money to get them put in no point to remove them



That is there own foolishness. There are more schools who HAVE NOT paid for it than those that have so why should they be "punished" due to some quick triggered people?


I see both sides, the WIAA voted to have a SC so some schools went out to get that installed (although very, very early since it doesn't go into effect for 2 more years). No idea what any AD/School would be thinking since this was such a hot topic for discussion. Who approved that expenditure before the area meetings were even held?

I have no idea how many schools already put this in but laughed a few weeks ago when one school asked the other school if they saved their receipts?

Maybe the WBCA should sponsor and pay for it at every HS since this is their baby. Have them put their money where their mouth is.


Yeah, I don't see both sides. See the bolded in your post for reasoning.


Schools that went out and spent the money already were only following the rule as passed and announced by the WIAA.

Given the objections over this were they smart for doing so, probably not. But were they wrong for doing so, probably not.


Aren't ADs the ones complaining about cost? Why spend the money when it is so far off yet, and there's a lot of discussion yet to take place? That's on them, not the WIAA.


I would guess that the schools that already installed them are larger schools with larger budgets and more dollars available right now to do it. Why they didn't wait to see how this played out is unknown except they are now in a position to stand their ground and say we already spent the money because you told us we had to do so.

The WIAA has screwed this up so badly. They had to know they were going to get push back from the schools when the sports advisory committee is voting 12-2 against it. That committee represents the schools in their districts. Then the Exec committee voted 15-0 against it.
blade12
#192 Posted : Monday, September 18, 2017 9:20:59 AM(UTC)
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Still nothing new. Anderson still explaining the process of how we got to where we are. Discussing Deb Hauser letter to WBCA now.


I'd be interested in hearing the explanation of the Hauser letter to coaches.
blade12
#193 Posted : Monday, September 18, 2017 9:23:10 AM(UTC)
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Trailways Conference‏ @TrailwaysConf 22m22 minutes ago
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Yet another question about removing an official and using that money to pay for shot clocks and operators.

Horrible, horrible idea.


Fewer refs in exchange for a SC is not a good idea.
coach40
#194 Posted : Monday, September 18, 2017 9:26:49 AM(UTC)

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blade12 wrote:
Trailways Conference‏ @TrailwaysConf 22m22 minutes ago
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Yet another question about removing an official and using that money to pay for shot clocks and operators.

Horrible, horrible idea.


Fewer refs in exchange for a SC is not a good idea.


Wait, so they want to go down to 2 refs again? LOL
Do or do not---there is no try
Master Yoda
blade12
#195 Posted : Monday, September 18, 2017 9:33:17 AM(UTC)
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coach40 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Trailways Conference‏ @TrailwaysConf 22m22 minutes ago
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Yet another question about removing an official and using that money to pay for shot clocks and operators.

Horrible, horrible idea.


Fewer refs in exchange for a SC is not a good idea.


Wait, so they want to go down to 2 refs again? LOL


Let's speed up the game with a SC and then reduce the number of refs on the floor to pay for it... not a good combination.

Why have any refs, just call your own.

The scary part is that they used the word, "another." There must be more than 1 person suggesting that.

traviswilson
#196 Posted : Monday, September 18, 2017 9:44:42 AM(UTC)

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blade12 wrote:
coach40 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Trailways Conference‏ @TrailwaysConf 22m22 minutes ago
More
Yet another question about removing an official and using that money to pay for shot clocks and operators.

Horrible, horrible idea.


Fewer refs in exchange for a SC is not a good idea.


Wait, so they want to go down to 2 refs again? LOL


Let's speed up the game with a SC and then reduce the number of refs on the floor to pay for it... not a good combination.

Why have any refs, just call your own.

The scary part is that they used the word, "another." There must be more than 1 person suggesting that.


Was suggested by one member at the Mauston meeting I was at last week.
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coach40
#197 Posted : Monday, September 18, 2017 10:12:29 AM(UTC)

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traviswilson wrote:
blade12 wrote:
coach40 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Trailways Conference‏ @TrailwaysConf 22m22 minutes ago
More
Yet another question about removing an official and using that money to pay for shot clocks and operators.

Horrible, horrible idea.


Fewer refs in exchange for a SC is not a good idea.


Wait, so they want to go down to 2 refs again? LOL


Let's speed up the game with a SC and then reduce the number of refs on the floor to pay for it... not a good combination.

Why have any refs, just call your own.

The scary part is that they used the word, "another." There must be more than 1 person suggesting that.


Was suggested by one member at the Mauston meeting I was at last week.



Would cover roughly 1600 bucks if they did that, but then are they going to drop down to two for the playoffs? Doubt it.
Do or do not---there is no try
Master Yoda
blade12
#198 Posted : Monday, September 18, 2017 10:21:39 AM(UTC)
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coach40 wrote:
traviswilson wrote:
blade12 wrote:
coach40 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Trailways Conference‏ @TrailwaysConf 22m22 minutes ago
More
Yet another question about removing an official and using that money to pay for shot clocks and operators.

Horrible, horrible idea.


Fewer refs in exchange for a SC is not a good idea.


Wait, so they want to go down to 2 refs again? LOL


Let's speed up the game with a SC and then reduce the number of refs on the floor to pay for it... not a good combination.

Why have any refs, just call your own.

The scary part is that they used the word, "another." There must be more than 1 person suggesting that.


Was suggested by one member at the Mauston meeting I was at last week.



Would cover roughly 1600 bucks if they did that, but then are they going to drop down to two for the playoffs? Doubt it.


Brings up a question, who is covering the per game cost of a SC operator in a WIAA playoff game? Is that person paid by the WIAA like a game ref or does that person get paid out of the small split the schools already get? Will the revenue splits change if the schools are responsible for that? Then, if you are going to pay a SC operator shouldn't you be paying a game clock operator and then a score book person too?
coach40
#199 Posted : Monday, September 18, 2017 10:26:24 AM(UTC)

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blade12 wrote:
coach40 wrote:
traviswilson wrote:
blade12 wrote:
coach40 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Trailways Conference‏ @TrailwaysConf 22m22 minutes ago
More
Yet another question about removing an official and using that money to pay for shot clocks and operators.

Horrible, horrible idea.


Fewer refs in exchange for a SC is not a good idea.


Wait, so they want to go down to 2 refs again? LOL


Let's speed up the game with a SC and then reduce the number of refs on the floor to pay for it... not a good combination.

Why have any refs, just call your own.

The scary part is that they used the word, "another." There must be more than 1 person suggesting that.


Was suggested by one member at the Mauston meeting I was at last week.



Would cover roughly 1600 bucks if they did that, but then are they going to drop down to two for the playoffs? Doubt it.


Brings up a question, who is covering the per game cost of a SC operator in a WIAA playoff game? Is that person paid by the WIAA like a game ref or does that person get paid out of the small split the schools already get? Will the revenue splits change if the schools are responsible for that? Then, if you are going to pay a SC operator shouldn't you be paying a game clock operator and then a score book person too?


It will be the school. You know that and I know that.
Do or do not---there is no try
Master Yoda
blade12
#200 Posted : Monday, September 18, 2017 10:33:15 AM(UTC)
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coach40 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
coach40 wrote:
traviswilson wrote:
blade12 wrote:
coach40 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
Trailways Conference‏ @TrailwaysConf 22m22 minutes ago
More
Yet another question about removing an official and using that money to pay for shot clocks and operators.

Horrible, horrible idea.


Fewer refs in exchange for a SC is not a good idea.


Wait, so they want to go down to 2 refs again? LOL


Let's speed up the game with a SC and then reduce the number of refs on the floor to pay for it... not a good combination.

Why have any refs, just call your own.

The scary part is that they used the word, "another." There must be more than 1 person suggesting that.


Was suggested by one member at the Mauston meeting I was at last week.



Would cover roughly 1600 bucks if they did that, but then are they going to drop down to two for the playoffs? Doubt it.


Brings up a question, who is covering the per game cost of a SC operator in a WIAA playoff game? Is that person paid by the WIAA like a game ref or does that person get paid out of the small split the schools already get? Will the revenue splits change if the schools are responsible for that? Then, if you are going to pay a SC operator shouldn't you be paying a game clock operator and then a score book person too?


It will be the school. You know that and I know that.


If that is the case then the schools need to renegotiate their split with the WIAA. It needs to be 75% to schools and 25% to the WIAA. Either that or keep skimming off the ticket sales attendance.

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