skip navigation
Search Active Topics

UW-La Crosse cited by the NCAA for three major violations
Options
Previous Topic Next Topic
hoopdreamswi
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 9:59:19 PM(UTC)
All State
Posts: 2,119
High Fives: 10
High Fived: 72
Joined: 6/12/2005(UTC)
UW-La Crosse cited by the NCAA for three major violations...

http://www.d3sports.com/...sse-cited-for-infraction
Back to top
Sponsor  
 
Back to top  
diener34
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 10:05:55 PM(UTC)

Moderator Badge: WSN Moderator
WSN Hall of Fame
Posts: 10,190
High Fives: 305
High Fived: 742
Joined: 9/4/2005(UTC)
I got an email about this today. Chancellor stressed like 6 times that it wasn't intentional, lol.
You take the things you like.

You try to love the things you took.
Back to top
1 user high fived
mickjagger on 4/11/2012(UTC)
spike64
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 10:59:21 PM(UTC)

All American
Posts: 6,084
High Fives: 743
High Fived: 830
Joined: 6/12/2005(UTC)
NCAA, cracking down on 300 dollar scholarships, whilst banking nearly 1billion last year.
Back to top
 |  Edit by user
mickjagger
#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 11:20:49 PM(UTC)

WSNxtra: Member of WSN Xtra
All American
Posts: 7,788
High Fives: 1821
High Fived: 701
Joined: 1/25/2009(UTC)
diener34 wrote:
I got an email about this today. Chancellor stressed like 6 times that it wasn't intentional, lol.

I'm laughing with you, #34.

If one is to believe UW-L AD, Josh Wittman, "nobody within the UW-L athletic dept intentionally violated the NCAA rules." And, "there is no evidence .... that our student-athletes received aid because of their involvement in athletics." Furthermore, "All violations were the result of inadvertent actions .... on the part of university and athletic staff." Also, "... no student-athletes were directly involved" and "Our program prides itself on conducting our operations with the utmost integrity ..."

UW-LaCrosse Athletic Director Josh Whitman's statement:

“We regret to announce today that the NCAA has found our athletic program to have committed three major violations related to our university's financial aid practices," said UW-La Crosse athletic director Josh Whitman. "Fortunately, there is no evidence that any person associated with our program acted intentionally to violate NCAA rules, or that our student-athletes actually received aid because of their involvement in athletics. All violations were the result of inadvertent actions on the part of university and athletics staff. Most mportantly, no student-athletes were directly involved.

“With any challenge comes opportunity, and we are committed to parlaying these unfortunate circumstances into a learning opportunity for our athletics staff and our greater campus community. Our program prides itself on conducting our operations with the utmost integrity and, with the NCAA's guidance, we will implement new policies and procedures that will help us advance our goal of being the nation's premier Division III intercollegiate athletics program.”

How gullible and naive' does AD Whitman think the UW-L students, staff, alumni, athletes, parents, supporters and the general public & media are?

Good Lord, according to Whitman's statement, one might conclude that the violations either never occurred or were committed by someone totally divorced from anyone associated with UW-LaCrosse. I can never understand when someone is caught with their hand in the cookie jar that they try to pass the blame on either another entity or or a non-entity altogether (as in, "It didn't happen ..."). Give me a break and please, don't insult my intelligence.
Back to top
 |  Edit by user
1 user high fived
Minnesotanative_old on 5/10/2012(UTC)
hoopdreamswi
#5 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:54:29 AM(UTC)
All State
Posts: 2,119
High Fives: 10
High Fived: 72
Joined: 6/12/2005(UTC)
Having worked in higher ed, I can surmise how they got to this point. It's likely because well meaning people in the financial aid/scholarship area created scholarships and wrote criteria without thinking that they might be violating NCAA rules. They created a scholarship to award leadership and thought, "Why wouldn't we give credit to kids that play sports? That's a great example of leadership."

So UWL failed in a few ways. First, their financial aid/scholarship people should be educated on NCAA rules. It's on the athletic department to make sure that happens. Second, the athletic department needs to know the criteria for every scholarship on campus so they can catch ones written in violation of NCAA rules. (If you are a conspiracy theorist, this is where you can argue that they knew, but turned a blind eye to it. It's possible that they simply didn't bother to know, which is just stupid and careless.). Third, athletic department staff sitting on scholarship committees? That's just dumb. I can't find any reasonable explanation for not knowing that's not permitted.

I think UWL is trying to sell the story that all of this happened in the financial aid/scholarship office and athletics had nothing to do with it. That of course is a ridiculous excuse. It's the athletic department's job to make sure the ENTIRE campus complies to NCAA rules, whether they are part of the athletic department or not.
Back to top
 |  Edit by user
2 users high fived
mickjagger on 4/12/2012(UTC), Minnesotanative_old on 5/10/2012(UTC)
mickjagger
#6 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:35:06 PM(UTC)

WSNxtra: Member of WSN Xtra
All American
Posts: 7,788
High Fives: 1821
High Fived: 701
Joined: 1/25/2009(UTC)
hoopdreams_wi wrote:
Having worked in higher ed, I can surmise how they got to this point. It's likely because well meaning people in the financial aid/scholarship area created scholarships and wrote criteria without thinking that they might be violating NCAA rules. They created a scholarship to award leadership and thought, "Why wouldn't we give credit to kids that play sports? That's a great example of leadership."

So UWL failed in a few ways. First, their financial aid/scholarship people should be educated on NCAA rules. It's on the athletic department to make sure that happens. Second, the athletic department needs to know the criteria for every scholarship on campus so they can catch ones written in violation of NCAA rules. (If you are a conspiracy theorist, this is where you can argue that they knew, but turned a blind eye to it. It's possible that they simply didn't bother to know, which is just stupid and careless.). Third, athletic department staff sitting on scholarship committees? That's just dumb. I can't find any reasonable explanation for not knowing that's not permitted.

I think UWL is trying to sell the story that all of this happened in the financial aid/scholarship office and athletics had nothing to do with it. That of course is a ridiculous excuse. It's the athletic department's job to make sure the ENTIRE campus complies to NCAA rules, whether they are part of the athletic department or not.

Excellent interpretation and post, hoopdreams. A bit more rational and thought-out than the reactionary and vitriolic post that preceded it.
Back to top
 |  Edit by user
coachw12
#7 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 3:39:03 PM(UTC)
All Conference
Posts: 1,946
High Fives: 23
High Fived: 109
Joined: 10/11/2010(UTC)
What has happened to UWL. In my time their they were competitive in all sports except mens basketball, maybe womens as well. UWL has never been a basketball power.

Football became a joke under Coach Terry. NO excuse for this kind of crap to go on at UWL
Back to top
2 users high fived
mickjagger on 4/13/2012(UTC), Minnesotanative_old on 5/10/2012(UTC)
sportsfan12
#8 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 4:36:25 PM(UTC)

All American
Posts: 6,035
High Fives: 36
High Fived: 157
Joined: 6/30/2005(UTC)
The only credible response came from the Chancelor. The AD's is pathetic.

http://www.uwlathletics....EN_0221123947.aspx?id=93
Back to top
 |  Edit by user
1 user high fived
mickjagger on 4/13/2012(UTC)
eastbeast
#9 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 6:20:12 PM(UTC)
WSNxtra: Member of WSN Xtra
Varsity
Posts: 315
High Fives: 26
High Fived: 23
Joined: 1/6/2011(UTC)
Should they have NCAA championships taken away?
Back to top
mickjagger
#10 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 6:50:39 PM(UTC)

WSNxtra: Member of WSN Xtra
All American
Posts: 7,788
High Fives: 1821
High Fived: 701
Joined: 1/25/2009(UTC)
East Beast wrote:
Should they have NCAA championships taken away?

During the time-period in question, it appears the Eagles have only won national championships in gymnastics, track and cross country. The irony of this scholarship scandal is that during the time-period involved, several of UWL's sports have fallen off in performance compared to their glittering past, especially the football program.

The entire listing of UWL National Championships:
http://www.uwlathletics.....aspx?tab=nationaltitles
Back to top
 |  Edit by user
2 users high fived
coachw12 on 4/14/2012(UTC), Minnesotanative_old on 5/10/2012(UTC)
hickorycornhusker
#11 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2012 1:42:38 AM(UTC)

All State
Posts: 2,558
High Fives: 11
High Fived: 31
Joined: 7/2/2005(UTC)
sportsfan wrote:
The only credible response came from the Chancelor. The AD's is pathetic.

http://www.uwlathletics....EN_0221123947.aspx?id=93


That response should be showed in every public relations class. That is exactly what you say in this situation. You state what has happened, how you are at fault and how you are correcting it. I won't take credit away from Chancellor Gow because these are probably his sentiments, this statement seems almost too good that it is likely scripted. Not that it's a bad thing because the statement is right on the money.
Back to top
mrmike527
#12 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2012 2:34:52 AM(UTC)
WSN Hall of Fame
Posts: 5,791
High Fives: 265
High Fived: 145
Joined: 2/14/2007(UTC)
Isn't it bizarre that a school can't consider academic leadership when awarding scholarships?

I understand they don't want people to circumvent the rules, but jeez. If I were up for a scholarship at a University, and I played sports extremely seriously and had great success doing so, I would be less valued than a random member of any other extracurricular group?
Follow me @HutHutMike
Back to top
hickorycornhusker
#13 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2012 9:02:48 AM(UTC)

All State
Posts: 2,558
High Fives: 11
High Fived: 31
Joined: 7/2/2005(UTC)
Mr_mike527 wrote:
Isn't it bizarre that a school can't consider academic leadership when awarding scholarships?

I understand they don't want people to circumvent the rules, but jeez. If I were up for a scholarship at a University, and I played sports extremely seriously and had great success doing so, I would be less valued than a random member of any other extracurricular group?


I've never agreed with this rule for the reason you mentioned. Athletic leadership should count for something in the scholarship process. As long as the scholarship isn't contingent on you playing a sport in college it should fit within the NCAA Division III rules (to put them simply, athletes and non-athletes are always to be treated the same, playing a sport doesn't give you special privileges).

You couldn't even abuse this that much with the current financial aid reporting that says student-athlete aid has to be within 4% of regular student aid. Being outside that range is what originally triggered the NCAA investigation of UW-LAX (turns out UW-LAX was fine in that regard, the numbers just got misreported by UW-LAX to the NCAA).
Back to top
 |  Edit by user
coachw12
#14 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2012 2:54:16 PM(UTC)
All Conference
Posts: 1,946
High Fives: 23
High Fived: 109
Joined: 10/11/2010(UTC)
Mick Jagger wrote:
East Beast wrote:
Should they have NCAA championships taken away?

During the time-period in question, it appears the Eagles have only won national championships in gymnastics, track and cross country. The irony of this schoarlship scandal is that during the time-period involved, several of UWL's sports have fallen off in performance compared to their glittering past, especially the football program.

The entire listing of UWL National Championships:
http://www.uwlathletics.....aspx?tab=nationaltitles



the new football coach is trying to reach out to alumni especially 1985, 1992, 1995 teams. I do feel bad for him in a way as in the spring he is the only guy able to recruit as the other coaches have classes to teach.
Back to top
mickjagger
#15 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2012 6:38:14 PM(UTC)

WSNxtra: Member of WSN Xtra
All American
Posts: 7,788
High Fives: 1821
High Fived: 701
Joined: 1/25/2009(UTC)
hickory_cornhusker wrote:
Mr_mike527 wrote:
Isn't it bizarre that a school can't consider academic leadership when awarding scholarships?

I understand they don't want people to circumvent the rules, but jeez. If I were up for a scholarship at a University, and I played sports extremely seriously and had great success doing so, I would be less valued than a random member of any other extracurricular group?


I've never agreed with this rule for the reason you mentioned. Athletic leadership should count for something in the scholarship process. As long as the scholarship isn't contingent on you playing a sport in college it should fit within the NCAA Division III rules (to put them simply, athletes and non-athletes are always to be treated the same, playing a sport doesn't give you special privileges).

You couldn't even abuse this that much with the current financial aid reporting that says student-athlete aid has to be within 4% of regular student aid. Being outside that range is what originally triggered the NCAA investigation of UW-LAX (turns out UW-LAX was fine in that regard, the numbers just got misreported by UW-LAX to the NCAA).


The bolded, above.

It's not that you can't award financial aid to an athlete at the NCAA D-3 level based on leadership. It's like Hickory_Cornhusker pointed out, the athletes cannot be treated any more favorably in this regard than any other student. Original NCAA investigative reports indicate UWL greatly exceed their awarding of this kind of aid to student-athletes compared to the rest of the UWL student body. That will get you in trouble every time .... especially when there is evidence that it was ongoing for 20 years and it occurred to nobody at the administrative level (academic, athletic or otherwise) that something was disproportionate.
Back to top
 |  Edit by user
hoopdreamswi
#16 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2012 8:05:33 PM(UTC)
All State
Posts: 2,119
High Fives: 10
High Fived: 72
Joined: 6/12/2005(UTC)
The difficulty becomes in discerning athletic LEADERSHIP from athletic PERFORMANCE. Being named captain and organizing the team food drive shows leadership and that should be rewarded. Scoring 19 points per game and having a 40-inch vertical shows athletic performance and that should not be rewarded by NCAA Division III rules.

The problem is the NCAA membership (remember that the schools themselves are the NCAA, not a bunch of office workers in Indianapolis) hadn't figured out how to keep performance from creeping into leadership so at some point in the past they decided to block them both.

Perhaps after the 4% threshhold is in place after a few more years (it's still a relatively new standard, remember) the NCAA members will consider revising this rule. I'd rather let schools bend the rules up to 4% then deprive deserving student-athletes a chance to receive deserved scholarship money.
Back to top
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 1.9.4 | YAF © 2003-2010, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.968 seconds.