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Making of a Murderer.......
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#1 Posted : Sunday, December 27, 2015 5:06:27 PM(UTC)
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great series. Amazing travesty of justice.
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wiscopetty
#2 Posted : Sunday, December 27, 2015 5:24:16 PM(UTC)

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I'm still fairly convinced that Avery is guilty, but the show definitely raises questions of how the police arrived at that conclusion. Brendan Dassey OTOH really couldn't understand the gravity of what he was admitting to.

I think a more interesting documentary would cover Avery's first case and subsequent exoneration.
db11
#3 Posted : Sunday, December 27, 2015 5:55:29 PM(UTC)

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wiscopetty wrote:
I'm still fairly convinced that Avery is guilty, but the show definitely raises questions of how the police arrived at that conclusion. Brendan Dassey OTOH really couldn't understand the gravity of what he was admitting to.

I think a more interesting documentary would cover Avery's first case and subsequent exoneration.


Nice to see at least one level-headed person who's watched this exists on the internet.

Our culture scares me...for a crap-ton of reasons. Being easily convinced of anything is one of them. The way this thing is sweeping public opinion is quite frankly, frightening.

Look at everything with a discerning eye. Everything.
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wiscopetty
#4 Posted : Sunday, December 27, 2015 6:01:18 PM(UTC)

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db11 wrote:
wiscopetty wrote:
I'm still fairly convinced that Avery is guilty, but the show definitely raises questions of how the police arrived at that conclusion. Brendan Dassey OTOH really couldn't understand the gravity of what he was admitting to.

I think a more interesting documentary would cover Avery's first case and subsequent exoneration.


Nice to see at least one level-headed person who's watched this exists on the internet.

Our culture scares me...for a crap-ton of reasons. Being easily convinced of anything is one of them.

"Fairly" was probably even too kind to Avery's case. Given his past, I'm like 98% sure he killed Halbach. Like I said, the documentary raises some interesting points, but I heard accusations of bias before watching the documentary, and unfortunately they were confirmed.
db11
#5 Posted : Sunday, December 27, 2015 6:12:19 PM(UTC)

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wiscopetty wrote:
db11 wrote:
wiscopetty wrote:
I'm still fairly convinced that Avery is guilty, but the show definitely raises questions of how the police arrived at that conclusion. Brendan Dassey OTOH really couldn't understand the gravity of what he was admitting to.

I think a more interesting documentary would cover Avery's first case and subsequent exoneration.


Nice to see at least one level-headed person who's watched this exists on the internet.

Our culture scares me...for a crap-ton of reasons. Being easily convinced of anything is one of them.

"Fairly" was probably even too kind to Avery's case. Given his past, I'm like 98% sure he killed Halbach. Like I said, the documentary raises some interesting points, but I heard accusations of bias before watching the documentary, and unfortunately they were confirmed.


Right, the authorities certainly had a bone to pick with Avery, and there's certainly merit in what's presented (and if anyone paid attention, we all knew Kratz was a creep)...but, there's a huge difference in demanding a re-trial and outright stating that Avery and Dassey are 100% innocent.

The point I'd like to see people come to should be appropriate justice for Teresa Halbach. That might mean we still find out Avery and Dassey are 100% guilty...which is still the the likeliest scenario.

The argument should be for due process, not automatic exoneration. Man, I hate people...lol.
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#6 Posted : Sunday, December 27, 2015 7:13:13 PM(UTC)
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Actually, most people that I have come across are pretty level headed about this. Odds are that Avery still did it, but there is this little thing called "reasonable doubt" that keeps getting in the way.

Not to mention, his nephew was railroaded into a confession which they HAD TO HAVE in order to have a case against Avery.
kenny78
#7 Posted : Sunday, December 27, 2015 8:06:21 PM(UTC)
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This alleged "documentary" is so one-sided it is disgusting. A real documentary would provide facts, not conjecture and innuendo. It tells only one side of the case, mostly from the viewpoint of the people who think Avery is innocent. It is sad that nobody seems to be concerned with what happened to Teresa Hallbach, only that this sicko must have been railroaded, because in today's society that is what so many people believe all police officers do.
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#8 Posted : Sunday, December 27, 2015 9:28:30 PM(UTC)
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kenny78 wrote:
This alleged "documentary" is so one-sided it is disgusting. A real documentary would provide facts, not conjecture and innuendo. It tells only one side of the case, mostly from the viewpoint of the people who think Avery is innocent. It is sad that nobody seems to be concerned with what happened to Teresa Hallbach, only that this sicko must have been railroaded, because in today's society that is what so many people believe all police officers do.


So the key just magically appeared on the floor, on the 5th time the trailer was searched? Fascinating.....
traviswilson
#9 Posted : Monday, December 28, 2015 12:33:27 AM(UTC)

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The show is propaganda more than it is a documentary. Blatantly biased, with most opinions and emotional arguments coming from the accused. Key evidence presented at trial not included in the documentary as well. I agree with DB, it's scary how many people watched it without knowing or researching anything else about the murder and immediately began lobbying for Avery's innocence.
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dfnewburry
#10 Posted : Monday, December 28, 2015 1:34:53 AM(UTC)

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icons wrote:
kenny78 wrote:
This alleged "documentary" is so one-sided it is disgusting. A real documentary would provide facts, not conjecture and innuendo. It tells only one side of the case, mostly from the viewpoint of the people who think Avery is innocent. It is sad that nobody seems to be concerned with what happened to Teresa Hallbach, only that this sicko must have been railroaded, because in today's society that is what so many people believe all police officers do.


So the key just magically appeared on the floor, on the 5th time the trailer was searched? Fascinating.....


Possibly bad police work does not negate the guilt of Steve Avery who did to that young woman exactly what he had done to the family cat 20+ years earlier .
mickjagger
#11 Posted : Monday, December 28, 2015 1:57:27 AM(UTC)

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db11 wrote:
wiscopetty wrote:
db11 wrote:
wiscopetty wrote:
I'm still fairly convinced that Avery is guilty, but the show definitely raises questions of how the police arrived at that conclusion. Brendan Dassey OTOH really couldn't understand the gravity of what he was admitting to.

I think a more interesting documentary would cover Avery's first case and subsequent exoneration.

Nice to see at least one level-headed person who's watched this exists on the internet.

Our culture scares me...for a crap-ton of reasons. Being easily convinced of anything is one of them.

"Fairly" was probably even too kind to Avery's case. Given his past, I'm like 98% sure he killed Halbach. Like I said, the documentary raises some interesting points, but I heard accusations of bias before watching the documentary, and unfortunately they were confirmed.

Right, the authorities certainly had a bone to pick with Avery, and there's certainly merit in what's presented (and if anyone paid attention, we all knew Kratz was a creep)...but, there's a huge difference in demanding a re-trial and outright stating that Avery and Dassey are 100% innocent.

The point I'd like to see people come to should be appropriate justice for Teresa Halbach. That might mean we still find out Avery and Dassey are 100% guilty...which is still the the likeliest scenario.

The argument should be for due process, not automatic exoneration. Man, I hate people...lol.
traviswilson wrote:
The show is propaganda more than it is a documentary. Blatantly biased, with most opinions and emotional arguments coming from the accused. Key evidence presented at trial not included in the documentary as well. I agree with DB, it's scary how many people watched it without knowing or researching anything else about the murder and immediately began lobbying for Avery's innocence.

dfnewburry wrote:
icons wrote:
kenny78 wrote:
This alleged "documentary" is so one-sided it is disgusting. A real documentary would provide facts, not conjecture and innuendo. It tells only one side of the case, mostly from the viewpoint of the people who think Avery is innocent. It is sad that nobody seems to be concerned with what happened to Teresa Hallbach, only that this sicko must have been railroaded, because in today's society that is what so many people believe all police officers do.

So the key just magically appeared on the floor, on the 5th time the trailer was searched? Fascinating.....

Possibly bad police work does not negate the guilt of Steve Avery who did to that young woman exactly what he had done to the family cat 20+ years earlier .

Good points.

While I don't know in which parts of the state all of you live, I do know Kenny and I live in proximity to the scene of the crime. And, it is interesting that an over-whelming majority of folks living in the Green Bay, Manitowoc, Appleton areas who followed this case closely, believe Avery is guilty of Ms Halbach's murder.

As some of you have mentioned, "documentary" is a very loose and weak description of this series, as the series basically is making an argument for Avery's innocence. The series does not provide an unbiased presentation of both sides of the story as a true documentary would.

The power of suggestion .... much like the rhetoric spewed forth by hopeful political candidates and court-room attorneys .... including, but not limited to: innuendo, deception, omission, heavy doses of spin, misleading facts and half-truths, etc. ..... can be very compelling & convincing.
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#12 Posted : Monday, December 28, 2015 2:49:00 PM(UTC)

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I agree with the proximity thing. I mean, I'm from the area. Grew up going to the salvage yard many times. Related to people on the prosecution side of the trial. If you even bring up reasonable doubt, people get pissed at you. It was like that for the first trial. He was "100% guilty", with a "100% positive" ID from the victim. I mean, that turned out well, right? But, thankfully, we have all of these people with internet law degrees to clear things up for everyone.
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#13 Posted : Monday, December 28, 2015 5:12:31 PM(UTC)
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dfnewburry wrote:
icons wrote:
kenny78 wrote:
This alleged "documentary" is so one-sided it is disgusting. A real documentary would provide facts, not conjecture and innuendo. It tells only one side of the case, mostly from the viewpoint of the people who think Avery is innocent. It is sad that nobody seems to be concerned with what happened to Teresa Hallbach, only that this sicko must have been railroaded, because in today's society that is what so many people believe all police officers do.


So the key just magically appeared on the floor, on the 5th time the trailer was searched? Fascinating.....


Possibly bad police work does not negate the guilt of Steve Avery who did to that young woman exactly what he had done to the family cat 20+ years earlier .


Thing is, it was not "bad police work" as the reason the key was not found. The key was found on the 5th search because it was planted there on the 5th search. There really is no other explanation.

Looks like the group Anonymous is set to release some findings tomorrow also. Yes....Anonymous is now involved in this joke of an investigation.
traviswilson
#14 Posted : Monday, December 28, 2015 5:24:55 PM(UTC)

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Dead 23-year old woman, keys, DNA in multiple locations, bones, bullets, cars, admissions of guilt, all planted!!!!!!!
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#15 Posted : Monday, December 28, 2015 7:35:43 PM(UTC)
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traviswilson wrote:
Dead 23-year old woman, keys, DNA in multiple locations, bones, bullets, cars, admissions of guilt, all planted!!!!!!!


Floating keys that defy gravity, no blood or DNA in the bedroom where she was raped multiple times and her throat slit, relative that essentially walks straight to a vehicle that she had no clue of whereabouts (and claims god guided her), coercion of a obviously mentally handicapped boy (IQ of 73), mysterious needle holes in vile of Steve Averys blood that was locked in police evidence room,

You really need to watch the series. You are just as close minded as the people that are 100% certain that Steve is not guilty. Amazing that ANYONE cannot see what happened in this case after watching the series. Brendan Dassey is sitting in prison for a crime that he almost certainly didn't commit, but without Branden then they have no case against Steve.

endy
#16 Posted : Monday, December 28, 2015 8:53:39 PM(UTC)

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This was an impressive 'documentary'. (Hopefully ppl are smart enough to realize it is one sided and if you don't, you are as bad as the prostitution, i mean prosecution.) There are so many different aspects of it. Just from the entertainment/production side, I love that it took 10 years for them to create. That is some dedication. It wasn't all fancy and full of fluff, just hard facts (and missing facts i’m sure). It’s tough to keep someone entertained for 10 hours with facts, details, and information. That really impressed me. Also, talk about timing!!! What a better time to release this between Serial and the rise of questioning of law enforcement’s ethics. Talk about Making a Moneymaker!

I’m still not convinced one way or another if Avery did it. Does that mean he should be a free man then? In the back of my head I feel like I don’t want Avery released unless another killer is found, which is totally unfair. I almost think it was his other nephew, but that is a hunch based on no facts. That is probably what makes this story more compelling and debatable because both sides have a lot of proof they can point to to justify their view. I do wonder if the police started with Steven again as the main suspect once the salvage yard was involved and worked towards painting that picture instead of the evidence leading directly towards him. It’s hard to tell if the cops and prosecution are just bad at their jobs or did a few things to make the case against Steven easier to prosecute him. Like at one point I think the Sexter (or poor man's Paul Bearer) even said something to the effect of does it matter who or where the car key was found, it had Steven’s DNA on it. They probably knew he did it, but needed more evidence to convict him so became more aggressive and planted the key. And like the letter to the Big Hair lady at the crime lab telling her to tie the bullet to Steven. Actually, that letter probably isn’t as bad as it sounds. I’m sure letters like that are sent all the time. With open records, you think ppl would be smarter now, but again that was 10 years ago when people were dumb… (excluding my posts on this site back then)

The entire 10 hours I couldn’t stop thinking how much this must suck for Teresa’s family. I can’t imagine how horrible this entire process has been and to now have this documentary come out and have to relive the publicity of this all again. That being said, i’m glad it came out to show some of the injustices and bad practices most people don’t see. The whole Branden thing broke my heart. I think he is completely not guilty and just a victim of interrogation techniques. When I first saw him I was quick to judge and it was easy to picture him along the likes of Dylan Roof or other school shooters. After hearing him being interrogated though I just saw a 7 year old in a 16 year old’s body. Plus, the way his defense team sold him out was horrible. Sadly, this probably happens a hundred times a day.

I just have so many questions and I want answers! And how hot is that reporter with the glasses, Angenette Levy? That silver fox guy is pretty stunning too.
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#17 Posted : Monday, December 28, 2015 9:22:19 PM(UTC)
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Nice post Endy. I personally think that odds are Steven did it, but I am not convinced of it. Going strictly by this series, the jury should have taken about 5 minutes to come back with a "not guilty" verdict based on reasonable doubt. Obviously since it is for the most part a one sided, the entire story was not told. But, there are serious credibility issues with the way this was handled nonetheless and that is obvious from the beginning.
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#18 Posted : Monday, December 28, 2015 11:45:45 PM(UTC)

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I'm just about to finish the documentary now. A lot of my Facebook friends seem to think he's innocent. I can't say for sure because I wasn't part of the case, but I'm leaning towards guilty. This all happened when I was in high school and I vaguely remember the case being real popular, but I do remember thinking he was guilty back then as well. But it's just what I think.
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#19 Posted : Tuesday, December 29, 2015 7:22:46 AM(UTC)
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Question for those who know/ are pretty sure he is guilty:

Let me preface this by stating that I am someone who is coming at this with no prior knowledge about the case, started with the doc, and then went about reading about the principle characters online.

For those that are sure Steven did it, what gives you that certainty, and how did he do it? I think it is fair to say that if the Dassy story were true, there would be pools of dna all over the house, and if she were shot in the garage, there would be splatter dna all over that junk, so what evidence did the doc leave out that would reinforce either of those two theories or point in the direction of a more plausible theory?


Just someone here trying to make sense of this deal, and thanks in advance for the responses.
db11
#20 Posted : Tuesday, December 29, 2015 12:18:45 PM(UTC)

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As I've said before, it's entirely possible that this is a complete miscarriage of justice...especially where the kid is concerned, he never seemed mentally competent enough to really stand on his own.

I, personally, though, am incredibly uncomfortable with the thought of giving a known sociopath a third chance.

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On another note...endy!
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#21 Posted : Tuesday, December 29, 2015 12:28:32 PM(UTC)
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wlhssuperjake08 wrote:
I'm just about to finish the documentary now. A lot of my Facebook friends seem to think he's innocent. I can't say for sure because I wasn't part of the case, but I'm leaning towards guilty. This all happened when I was in high school and I vaguely remember the case being real popular, but I do remember thinking he was guilty back then as well. But it's just what I think.


Those same friends probably post about their love for Bernie Sanders too I'm guessing.....??
wlhssuperjake08
#22 Posted : Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:05:57 PM(UTC)

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wingt wrote:
wlhssuperjake08 wrote:
I'm just about to finish the documentary now. A lot of my Facebook friends seem to think he's innocent. I can't say for sure because I wasn't part of the case, but I'm leaning towards guilty. This all happened when I was in high school and I vaguely remember the case being real popular, but I do remember thinking he was guilty back then as well. But it's just what I think.


Those same friends probably post about their love for Bernie Sanders too I'm guessing.....??


I tend to try and stay as far away from politics as I can. I'm never really on Facebook to begin with, and even less lately with all of my friends suddenly becoming experts on politics and voicing their opinions. I really wish I could post a status of a friends on here. Lot's of back and forth between 2 friends who are very much on the opposite sides of the Steven Avery spectrum.

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#23 Posted : Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:47:35 PM(UTC)

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wingt wrote:
wlhssuperjake08 wrote:
I'm just about to finish the documentary now. A lot of my Facebook friends seem to think he's innocent. I can't say for sure because I wasn't part of the case, but I'm leaning towards guilty. This all happened when I was in high school and I vaguely remember the case being real popular, but I do remember thinking he was guilty back then as well. But it's just what I think.


Those same friends probably post about their love for Bernie Sanders too I'm guessing.....??


What would you know about Bernie Sanders, hillbilly.
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#24 Posted : Tuesday, December 29, 2015 8:05:22 PM(UTC)

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It's far from a documentary, it's incredibly slanted propaganda. It's well known the intent of this series was to prove his innocence. Anything can be twisted and manipulated by the media. We all love a good conspiracy though. A half an hour on Google and you can be convinced 9/11 was an inside joke, Sandy Hook was a hoax, or Tupac is still alive. This really is no different.
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wiscopetty
#25 Posted : Tuesday, December 29, 2015 8:19:28 PM(UTC)

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trickplayswingames wrote:
It's far from a documentary, it's incredibly slanted propaganda. It's well known the intent of this series was to prove his innocence. Anything can be twisted and manipulated by the media. We all love a good conspiracy though. A half an hour on Google and you can be convinced 9/11 was an inside joke, Sandy Hook was a hoax, or Tupac is still alive. This really is no different.

This isn't the same as those at all. Convictions get overturned all the time.

It seems that the opinions on this piece fall into three categories:
1. Avery is guilty.
2. Avery is likely guilty, but the investigation and trial were flawed.
3. Avery is innocent.

At the end of the day, I think it would've been better (and more honest) to paint this as an advocacy piece from the start rather than an unbiased documentary.
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