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2017 NBA Free Agency and Trades
cameroncrazies02
#1 Posted : Wednesday, June 28, 2017 10:04:09 PM(UTC)

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Well, its not even July 1st yet (free agency opening) and we're already off to a fiery start. This is going to be a very interesting summer. It may not be the crazy spending of last summer, but A LOT of trades.

Clippers trade Chris Paul to Houston Rockets for 2018 1st rd draft pick, Sam Dekker, Patrick Beverley, Louis Williams, Montrezl Harrell and a whole bunch of other guys that are going to be cut.

The Rockets made FOUR trades before this one to make it work, financially. To match salaries, the Rockets traded for four guys with non-guaranteed contracts and traded cash considerations to acquire those four, then included those four in the trade for Chris Paul who the Clippers will likely cut all four of those guys.

For the Rockets-it's an all in move. Apparently, Harden is recruiting Paul George to push for a trade to LAC. But that hasn't happened yet, so I'll touch on this trade first. It seems weird, both Harden and Paul are two of the most ball-dominant guards in the league, so it's hard to see how this will work, but Harden said last year he wouldn't mind playing off ball more which will provide opportunities for him to do so now. Paul is 32, but is still certainly in the twilight of his peak and still operating at a high level. His stats will definitely take a hit, but his effectiveness won't. I don't think it locks them into a contender yet, because they still have issues to deal with, but it certainly makes them an interesting team. They really gutted some of their depth though. Beverley was a huge defensive factor for then and CP3 is still a good defender, but not on the level of Beverley. Williams was likely to get traded, and they have Eric Gordon, the 6th man of the year, so he's a bit redundant. Dekker played a bit for HOU last year, but he's not a huge loss. All in all, the Rockets made a move to ensure they'd get Paul instead of courting him along with 4 or 5 other teams in FA and didn't give up a whole lot.

For the Clippers-it really spells the beginning of their re-build. The two biggest factors for them are Dekker and the pick and to a lesser extent, Beverley. They will likely look to flip Williams as they have Austin Rivers and Jamal Crawford still under contract. I expected Williams and Crawford to be shopped hard as they're not in the plans for the future. I see Dekker taking a bigger step next year and is a bit in the form of Chandler Parsons. Dekker has had some injuries though, which is concerning. The Clips got what they could when they were inevitably going to lose Paul in free agency. Next in line is probably DeAndre Jordan as Blake is probably going elsewhere in FA as well.

The Clippers have an extra 2018 pick from HOU plus their own, but owe a 2019 or 2020 1st to BOS which is lottery protected, so their pick situation is pretty even. Their roster, right now, looks like Dekker, Rivers, Beverley, Williams, Crawford, Wes Johnson, Diamond Stone, Brice Johnson, and who knows if DeAndre Jordan will be around. They're still cap strapped right now. I expect them to sign a couple guys on 1 year deals to make a throw-together roster for next season and have a boat load of cap space in 2018. They need a foundation though before they can start to draw in any free agents and they don't have that yet, but this is better than losing all their FA's and getting nothing back.
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formerwiacbaseballer
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 28, 2017 10:36:51 PM(UTC)

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cameroncrazies02 wrote:
For the Rockets-it's an all in move. Apparently, Harden is recruiting Paul George to push for a trade to LAC.

Assume you mean Houston????
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cameroncrazies02
#3 Posted : Wednesday, June 28, 2017 11:28:03 PM(UTC)

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formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
cameroncrazies02 wrote:
For the Rockets-it's an all in move. Apparently, Harden is recruiting Paul George to push for a trade to LAC.

Assume you mean Houston????


Yup, I did. Thanks for catching it. Why would George want to go somewhere where he can be the #1 guy? He seems to be trying to find himself as a #4 guy on a potential contender that he can hide behind.
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cameroncrazies02
#4 Posted : Saturday, July 01, 2017 12:26:59 AM(UTC)

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-Tony Snell re-signs with Bucks for 4/44, can earn up to 4/46
Snell was brought in via trade last summer for Michael Carter-Williams. Snell will never fill up a stat sheet. In fact, he played 28 mins in a game in February and didn't put up a single stat. But his impact goes well beyond the stat sheet. He is the ultimate 3&D guy. Some call his defense only above average, but he can guard anyone 1-4. I remember a game against TOR during the regular season, Kyle Lowry was killing us. Snell was on Derozan while Brogdon and Delly were getting blown away by Lowry possession after possession. They switched Snell onto Lowry to start the 2nd half and completely shut him down. He'd run him back to the half court line on pick and rolls, smother him with his length and size and completely shut him down. Many are going to criticize this deal and I was one of them a few days ago as I said 3&D guys are a dime a dozen. But I thought about it and realized, the only reason I was against it, was because we blew our load on Delly and Telly last summer. Snell is a solid starter for this team and compliments Middleton and Giannis well. He is getting paid almost the same as Mirza who racked up a bunch of DNP's last year. I can't criticize Snell because of our bad cap management last summer. I'm totally fine with Khris, Snell and Giannis as our 2-3-4 for the next 3 years. The one concern is that Snell's 3P% last year was a bit of a wonder from his years in CHI. The positive is that every year, his 3P% has been on a steady rise. He shot 36 and 37% respectively his last two years in CHI which shot up to 40% in MIL last year. But what is exciting, is that his 3P attempts went from 2.4 to 4.4 from his last year in CHI to last year in MIL. So to shoot almost twice as many and increase his percentage, to me, means he's getting better. This opens up the possibility of Jabari coming back as a 6th man and a huge spark plug off the bench.

-Steph Curry re-signs with GSW for 5/201
The richest deal in NBA history. And he deserves it. I'm a little surprised he didn't take less to give GSW a little wiggle room. I don't see a way they can keep Steph, Durant, Klay and Draymond in the future though. But they have Klay under contract for 2 more years and Draymond for 3 more. They will, however, be paying those 4, something in the range of $110 million next season if Durant re-signs for the max as well. Hello, massive luxury tax.

-IND trades Paul George to OKC for Victor Oladipo and Domantas Sabonis
They went from getting a few 1sts and a few starters around the draft, possibly even a top 5 pick in this years draft to these two guys. Look, Oladipo's a nice player. But he's a 4th banana on a good team. His ceiling is Dion Waiters. Oh, lets not forget, Oladipo is getting $21 million annually for the next 4 years. Sabonis, to me, is just a guy. Good touch around the rim, a soft big man so he's an awkward PF for this NBA. What a steal for OKC, even if it is just a rental. Westbrook and George will be very good together.

-MIN trades Ricky Rubio to UTA for future lottery protected 1st round pick
Both teams got a helluva deal here. MIN, in essence, cleared Rubio's entire salary. The pick is OKC's pick which is lottery protected through 2020. That could be a huge asset if OKC falls apart when Westbrook and PG are free agents next summer. MIN also opened up the possibility to sign Jeff Teague (see next entry) and get a player that fits the team a little better. For UTA, they were in a weird spot this summer. George Hill, Shelvin Mack and Joe Ingles are FA's. It's likely none of them will be back. They have, in essence, let all 3 of those guys walk, traded #24 in the draft and Trey Lyles and picked up Rubio, Donovan Mitchell and a future 1st. They also got Bradley in the draft. I'd say that's a fair trade off. With all their shooting, Rubio is going to have a field day throwing lobs to Gobert and dishing to shooters on the perimeter. This, however, will all be for not if they can't bring back Gordon Hayward. But if they do, Rubio, Joe Johnson, Hayward, Favors, Gobert with Hood, Diaw Mitchell, Burks, Exum, Bradley is an extremely deep and talented team.

-MIN signs PG Jeff Teague for 3/57
Replaces Rubio, better scorer, good passer, aggressive rebounder, good defender. Had a bad stint in IND because it was a bit of a dysfunctional team, but he's still only 28 and they got him on a short deal being 3 years, but have to pay out in the mean time. Teague, Wiggins, Butler, KAT, Dieng is a baaaad man's lineup. Problem is, they don't have much money to sign any bench guys and they don't have any bench to speak of right now. Other issue is, that's a lot of guys that need the ball. Give them credit, Minny's going for it.

-SA re-signs Patty Mills to 4/50
Hm. That's a lot of money. He's a back up PG. I guess the market is dictating this is the highest end for a guy like Mills. I don't see him being the future at PG for SA after Parker, but it's a decent re-sign in the mean time. A lot of teams are catching up to SA in the mean time, so they have a lot of work to do to at least maintain a hold of the top 4 in the West.

-LAC re-signs Blake Griffin to 5/173
I believe that's a max deal. Such a weird deal for LAC. They get pieces for CP3 as if they were going to blow it up and trade off their vets for young pieces and picks and re-build. But they're clearly still in the direction of trying to win-now. Beverley, Rivers, Dekker, Griffin, DJ with a bench of Crawford, Wes Johnson...it seems like a marginal playoff team in the West at its best. Back to Griffin, his history is going the route of Amare Stoudemire. He stopped going through guys, instead trying to dribble around them and shoot 3's. He's played 67, 31 and 61 games in his last 3 seasons. Injuries are catching up to him and I see it only getting worse. He's still a great stat filler, but I think he's at the twilight of his prime. A curious move for LAC at best.

-GSW re-sign Shaun Livingston to 3/24
With Iguodala leaving in FA, they had to retain some of their bench. Livingston is probably going to take that 6th man role. And GSW just goes deeper into the tax, but with the team they have, it's well worth it for the championship runs they could make for 3 more years.

-Bulls re-sign Cristiano Feliciano to 4/32
Huh. His per 36 numbers indicate he's just a guy. Huge body, moves people around, doesn't really block shots, decent rebounder, not a threat to score. Annnnd the Bulls paid him like a primary back up center. They're setting themselves up to have a bunch of middling contracts in the future.

-HOU re-signs Nene to 4/15
It's a cheap deal for a guy who's more of a muscle and foul getter than anything else. He still almost put up 10 PPG for them last season and he'll probably be their first big off the bench, but he's 34 years old and hasn't played a full, injury free season since 2010. The 4 year deal is what's striking.

-ORL reportedly offering Joe Ingles 4/60 offer sheet
WHAT?! John Hammond! I get needing guys who have experience, play defense and do the little things. That's important for a young team like ORL, but they have Fournier, Hezonja, Gordon, Isaac, Iwundu, and Ross as their 2-3-4'S. Where does Ingles fall in? That has to mean Hezonja is on his way out via trade. I could see Payton, Fournier, Ingles, Gordon, Vucevic with Biymbo, Isaac, Ross off the bench, but they're still going to be about 11 players deep who need playing time and no success to show.
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cameroncrazies02
#5 Posted : Saturday, July 01, 2017 11:58:28 PM(UTC)

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Joe Ingles re-signs with UTA for 4/52-
A little less than reported yesterday when legit reporters circled rumors that the Magic would give Ingles an offer sheet of 4/52. Maybe they were going to and he decided to take $2 mill less per season to stay in UTA after UTA tells him they won't match. But this is some crazy ass money. I get that he is a 3&D guy. His valuation is a lot like Tony Snell in that you can't value him by his stat sheet. He did, however, put up 10, 4 and 4 and 2 steals in per 36 and shot 44% from 3. That's a valuable dude to have. But at $13 mill per season when he's 29 and will be 30 at the start of training camp? THIS is where my argument initially for Snell was that you could find 3&D guys as dime a dozen. UTA is going for it now and is giving themselves no room for error.

HOU signs PJ Tucker to 4/32-
HOU has been trying to shed salary (Ryan Anderson) to bring in other smaller pieces. Tucker was one of them. I don't like the length of the deal, Tucker is 32, but he has less miles on him because he played in Euro leagues until he was 25. But his impact is solely in his defense, muscle and spot up shooting. Those are all things HOU needed, but I thought they could've spent this money better. If they can't trade Anderson though, Paul, Harden, Tucker and Anderson as a 1-4 are a pretty nice team. Tucker definitely helps their interior defense, he can guard anybody 1-4 and compliments Anderson well who can't guard anyone aged 1-4.

GSW re-signs Andre Iguodala to 3/48-
This was probably the most shocking to me. $16 MILLION for Iguodala!! I get it, he's a great swiss army knife for this team, he plays good defense, he can pass, but his shooting has taken a steep decline and he's 34! The Warriors see they have a 2-3 year window, so they're trying to keep this same team together and win every year while they can. But you can insert younger, cheaper bench guys, maintain somewhat of a smaller luxury tax and have the opportunity to grow your young guys. They stole Ian Clark a few years ago and he's been great for them. I'm shocked they didn't let Iggy walk to another team for $20 mill per year and insert Clark into his spot.

Cavs sign Jose Calderon to 1 year deal-
Yuck. They have no money to spend, so they have to go with minimum contracts, but I thought they could've done better. They tried with Deron Williams and he fell off the face of the earth. Calderon was a matador a few years ago on defense. At 36 now, he's got almost nothing left. I hope they don't see him as primary backup to Kyrie.

76ers sign JJ Redick to 1/23, Amir Johnson to 1/11-
The Sixers are going to pay out big for 1 year contracts and they did just that here. I've heard this was their plan and don't entirely understand it. I guess they're trying to maintain roster flexibility, but it doesn't provide your young guys any veteran consistency. Redick was a great addition though for this team. He should do really well for them. But it's a 1 year rental and I don't see them signing him long term after this year. Johnson is just a guy at this point. Can do some things here and there, is a locker room/veteran presence. They have so much money to spend, they can do deals like this and it not be a factor.
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cameroncrazies02
#6 Posted : Sunday, July 02, 2017 5:21:56 PM(UTC)

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TOR re-signs Kyle Lowry to 3/100, Ibaka to 3/65-

TOR is really gonna give it a go in the East by keeping their core together. And they are paying dearly to do so. They are also rumored to be researching a trade of Cory Joseph and Jonas Valanciunas, likely for cap space or to at least get the luxury tax threshold visual in the distance. They are paying Lowry about $6-7 mill more per year than anticipated, but that's the price they're paying to not give him a 4 year deal or a max. Look, I like Lowry, he's a good player, but he notoriously shrinks in big games, he's 31 years old and missed 1/4 of the season last year. His 3P% went through the roof, so he's expanding his game for his age, but this is a lot of money to give and is untradeable in the future if he falls off even a smidge. With the rumors of Valanciunas being on the block, I'd guess TOR is looking to push Ibaka to center and fill in a spread the floor shooter at the 4 seeing as how that's when they gained the most success playing small ball. I'm not as down on the Ibaka deal, he's a good player who still has a lot to offer, he's a legitimate 3P threat and does everything they need behind their guards. TOR sees the landscape of the East shifting and them, by natural selection, moving up the totem pole. But is it worth it to pay this much to aging guys to get the 2nd or 3rd seed in the East and get demolished in the East Finals or NBA Finals?

SAC signs Otto Porter to max deal, 4/106-
WAS has said all along they will match any deal including a max. Now the cards are out on the table. They'd be paying Wall, Beal and Porter max deals, not too mention they're paying Ian Mahinmi and Marcin Gortat a combined $29 million each year for the next two years. So now the question is, do they match with absolutely no wiggle room to sign anyone else outside of really small deals and try to keep pushing with this same team and likely losing Bojan Bogdanovic to FA (who was fantastic for them) or do they let Porter walk and sign some lesser deals to fill his spot? They still have Kelly Oubre waiting in the wings, they signed Jodie Meeks...I think they let him walk. For SAC, that's a great signing. They have to try to blow a team out of the water in FA in this fashion to get anybody and Porter is only 24, expanding his game to the 3P line (shot 40% last year). Fox, Hield, Porter, Labissiere, WCS with Justin Jackson, Koufus, Papagiannis, Giles on the bench is a really young, nice team who all compliment each other well.

Cavs re-sign Kyle Korver to 3/22-
The Cavs keep doing this. They pick up old guys on 1 year rentals and keep them coming back year after year, never acquiring young legs and they are smoked come playoff time. It happened with both Korver and Deron Williams last year, yet they signed Korver to a THREE YEAR DEAL! He's a good shooter, but not nearly what he once was and is a terrible defender. I thought they could've done better with their money.
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cameroncrazies02
#7 Posted : Sunday, July 02, 2017 11:08:11 PM(UTC)

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DEN signs Paul Millsap to 3/90-
A pretty good steal for DEN. Millsap hasn't been the most efficient shooter, but statistically, he's playing his best ball of his career as an all-around guy, good passer, and turned himself into a good defender. He's a great fit next to Jokic, the only question will be their interior depth and PG situation. They still have some money to spend and there are PG's on the market. They have to be kicking themselves a bit for not drafting Donovan Mitchell now. As it stands, they look like Mudiay, Murray, Chandler, Millsap, Jokic with Faried, Hernangomez, Lydon, Lyles, Nelson, Barton, Arthur, Harris off the bench. You have to wonder whether they go after the PG market or trade Faried for a PG and sign a big yet to back up Jokic. With Arthur, Lyles and Hernangomez, they have the back up PF spot on lock.

MIN signs Justin Holiday to 2/9-
Small deal, good shooter, MIN now trying to bolster it's bench.

MEM signs Ben McLemore to 2/11-
Considering what Holiday just got, this was a steal for MEM. He's been stifled on SAC's bench for a few years and jerked around. MEM badly needs depth and young legs and this was a steal for them.
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-2013 NBA Draft Combine Day 1 results and review
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gstacy
#8 Posted : Monday, July 03, 2017 8:12:04 AM(UTC)
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cameroncrazies02 wrote:
DEN signs Paul Millsap to 3/90-
A pretty good steal for DEN. Millsap hasn't been the most efficient shooter, but statistically, he's playing his best ball of his career as an all-around guy, good passer, and turned himself into a good defender. He's a great fit next to Jokic, the only question will be their interior depth and PG situation. They still have some money to spend and there are PG's on the market. They have to be kicking themselves a bit for not drafting Donovan Mitchell now. As it stands, they look like Mudiay, Murray, Chandler, Millsap, Jokic with Faried, Hernangomez, Lydon, Lyles, Nelson, Barton, Arthur, Harris off the bench. You have to wonder whether they go after the PG market or trade Faried for a PG and sign a big yet to back up Jokic. With Arthur, Lyles and Hernangomez, they have the back up PF spot on lock.

MIN signs Justin Holiday to 2/9-
Small deal, good shooter, MIN now trying to bolster it's bench.

MEM signs Ben McLemore to 2/11-
Considering what Holiday just got, this was a steal for MEM. He's been stifled on SAC's bench for a few years and jerked around. MEM badly needs depth and young legs and this was a steal for them.

Gallinari would look good in a Bucks uniform also coming off the bench or part time starter. also would be a good mentor to the Bucks young forwards G and Jabari.
gstacy
#9 Posted : Monday, July 03, 2017 10:42:49 AM(UTC)
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Saw a post asking about Derrick Rose, are they serious?
dfnewburry
#10 Posted : Monday, July 03, 2017 11:23:45 AM(UTC)

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gstacy wrote:
Saw a post asking about Derrick Rose, are they serious?


Derrick Rose would be a fine 6th .
gstacy
#11 Posted : Monday, July 03, 2017 12:18:20 PM(UTC)
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dfnewburry wrote:
gstacy wrote:
Saw a post asking about Derrick Rose, are they serious?


Derrick Rose would be a fine 6th .


so picking him up would put the bucks closer to competing for a better playoff seed?
dfnewburry
#12 Posted : Monday, July 03, 2017 2:35:08 PM(UTC)

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Not exactly , the Bucks are hoping with Rose and another injury they could possibly get back into the draft lottery .
cameroncrazies02
#13 Posted : Tuesday, July 04, 2017 12:25:56 AM(UTC)

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Ugh, these Derrick Rose rumors. We have Brogdon and Delly. Clearing cap, I'd have to imagine it'd be Delly going out. Is Rose an upgrade over Delly? At this point, I'd rather stay the course with Delly and his outside shooting. Especially what it'll cost us to take on Rose. There's three ways to take Rose on. 1) Sign him to an exception being either mid-level or bi-annual. I think mid-level is around $8 mill per. 2) Sign and trade with the Knicks. This option seems somewhat unlikely. The Knicks would have to take back salary and we don't have any salary to offer that's good unless we attach an asset. Instead, NY can simply let Rose walk and hold their cap space. 3) Trade a contract + an asset to free up cap room and sign Rose. #3 is my biggest nightmare. It'd mean something like a Henson/Telly contract and adding a 1st round pick to another team simply to open space to sign Rose.

I hope this is just a formality. See how low he's willing to go on a contract. He got $20 mill from NYK last season and statistically, did pretty well, but was a nightmare in the flow of the offense, is known to be a bit of an issue in the locker room AND tore his meniscus late in the year. I can't imagine he's thinking he's worth anywhere near $10 mill a year and for more than a year for that matter.

Even if we completely walk away from this without a deal and it's never spoken of again, it isn't a great look for our new front office. These are the types of guys we went after in the Kohl era. It's not innovative or progressive. GM's are becoming clever making shrewd cap moves, signing guys to innovative contracts and finding ways to sign guys without any cap room via sign and trades. And on the same day, the Lakers may lock up George Hill (a PERFECT fit for this team) to a 1 year deal (albeit for big money, but still) and Darren Collison gets a measly 2/20 contract which would be perfect.
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cameroncrazies02
#14 Posted : Tuesday, July 04, 2017 12:40:40 AM(UTC)

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Pacers sign Darren Collison to 2/20, working on buyout of Monta Ellis-
A great deal for IND. I'm not sure of their direction, they traded away George for pennies and now have a thrown together roster, but nonetheless, this is a good stop-gap signing. It's cheap and short and gives them flexibility for the future. They're also working on a buyout for Ellis. He's completely deadweight at this point after adding Oladipo and is a good move for him and the team to part ways. So far, they look like Collison, Oladipo, Thad Young, Leaf, Turner with Al Jefferson, Lance Stephenson off the bench. Probably not a playoff team, but who knows. Could be addition by subtraction.

Kevin Durant re-signs with GSW for 2/53-
Took a pretty big paycut for a 2 year deal which has a player option for year 2. Some are praising Durant for taking such a short deal to give them flexibility (in the form of less luxury tax for next season) but in reality, he'll opt out after next summer and re-sign for the max in hopes the salary cap goes up and he gets more money. It really doesn't do anything for them. He'll still get a max deal after next year and they'll have to make a decision on Klay Thompson at that point.

Gallinari to LAC in sign and trade-
Deal looks like: Gallinari to LAC, Millsap to DEN and Jamal Crawford, Diamond Stone and HOU (from LAC) 2018 1st rd pick to ATL. Considering ATL was going to lose Millsap for nothing, they will at least get a late 1st out of it. Stone was horrible in summer league and D-League last year, so he's inconsequential and Crawford will be bought out. Gallo will sign with LAC for 3/65. I'm shocked LAC is still really going for it. The West is absolutely stacked and LAC is probably going to fall out of the picture. They'll probably look like: Beverley, Rivers, Gallinari, Griffin, DJ with Lou Williams, Dekker, Harrell off the bench. Griffin is out until DEC as well due to injury.
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-2013 NBA Draft Combine Day 1 results and review
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hueby
#15 Posted : Tuesday, July 04, 2017 2:08:11 PM(UTC)
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cameroncrazies02 wrote:
Ugh, these Derrick Rose rumors. We have Brogdon and Delly. Clearing cap, I'd have to imagine it'd be Delly going out. Is Rose an upgrade over Delly? At this point, I'd rather stay the course with Delly and his outside shooting. Especially what it'll cost us to take on Rose. There's three ways to take Rose on. 1) Sign him to an exception being either mid-level or bi-annual. I think mid-level is around $8 mill per. 2) Sign and trade with the Knicks. This option seems somewhat unlikely. The Knicks would have to take back salary and we don't have any salary to offer that's good unless we attach an asset. Instead, NY can simply let Rose walk and hold their cap space. 3) Trade a contract + an asset to free up cap room and sign Rose. #3 is my biggest nightmare. It'd mean something like a Henson/Telly contract and adding a 1st round pick to another team simply to open space to sign Rose.

I hope this is just a formality. See how low he's willing to go on a contract. He got $20 mill from NYK last season and statistically, did pretty well, but was a nightmare in the flow of the offense, is known to be a bit of an issue in the locker room AND tore his meniscus late in the year. I can't imagine he's thinking he's worth anywhere near $10 mill a year and for more than a year for that matter.

Even if we completely walk away from this without a deal and it's never spoken of again, it isn't a great look for our new front office. These are the types of guys we went after in the Kohl era. It's not innovative or progressive. GM's are becoming clever making shrewd cap moves, signing guys to innovative contracts and finding ways to sign guys without any cap room via sign and trades. And on the same day, the Lakers may lock up George Hill (a PERFECT fit for this team) to a 1 year deal (albeit for big money, but still) and Darren Collison gets a measly 2/20 contract which would be perfect.


I don't have twitter or Facebook, sounds like a deal is in the works. Anyone hear anything new? (Thanks for the update/ thread)
cameroncrazies02
#16 Posted : Tuesday, July 04, 2017 11:37:49 PM(UTC)

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Gordon Hayward signs w/ Celtics for 4/128-
I am shocked. I thought for sure, based on what I've read about Hayward, how the Jazz built the team around him, especially this off-season, that he'd re-sign with them. Instead, he chooses to go East and sign with BOS. BOS has a very dangerous team now and will likely contend with CLE for the #1 seed. They have IT, Horford, Hayward, Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Bradley, Smart, Crowder. They need, desperately, depth at center. And to make this deal happen, they'll need to renounce some contracts, and trade away some smaller ones to fit Hayward, then fill out their roster. They'll be thin on the bench unless they can work a trade where they get 2 players in return for Smart, Bradley or Crowder. I feel for Utah, they've done such a good job restoring their team from literally nothing. They've picked a lot of guys in the teens in the draft that have turned out well for them, but now have no star left. They let George Hill walk to accommodate cap space and will reportedly sign Joe Ingles, Hayward's best friend. I wonder now, if they go back on the reported Ingles deal to save cap room or look elsewhere. At the same time, Otto Porter signed an offer sheet with BKN, so UTA's really only marquee option left is Rudy Gay.

BKN signs Otto Porter to max deal, WAS will match-
So, I'm not really sure what happened to the report of the Kings signing Porter to the max. It sounds like SAC backed out on the deal and BKN swooped in. BKN has been swinging for the fences on guys like this (they signed Allen Crabbe to his max deal last year that POR matched), but will miss out on Porter again as it's reported WAS will match. Same goes for before, WAS matches and is completely cap strapped and will have a massive luxury tax bill.

Pat Patterson signs with OKC for 3/17-
A steal in this free agency. Patterson's a serviceable big that OKC needed to fill with the trade of Sabonis when they netted Paul George.

Celtics rescind qualifying offer to Kelly Olynyk-
This had to be done for the Celtics to sign Hayward. Olynyk will now become an unrestricted free agent which is bad timing for him after many teams have already spent their cap space. He's limited, but has really good range, decent rebounder, good passer.

SAC signs George Hill (3/57) and Zach Randolph (2/24)-
SAC has done an incredible job turning over their roster. To add to their incredibly young roster, they've added two veterans who can help out their young guys and are both on decent contracts. Hill's is a little much considering his injury history but he'll be a great fit off the bench behind De'Aaron Fox. Randolph confuses the Kings front court a bit considering their depth their already, but for that deal, you can't pass it up. Kings depth chart looks like:

PG-De'Aaron Fox, George Hill
SG-Buddy Hield, Garrett Temple, Malachi Richardson
SF-Bogdan Bogdanovic, Josh Jackson
PF-Skal Labissiere, Zach Randolph
C-Willy Cauley-Stein, Harry Giles, Kosta Koufus, Georgios Papagiannis

They'll have some work to do. I feel like they could offer WCS in a trade to net some better depth, especially at SF. Bogdanovic is more of a SG and will have limitations on defense and will back up Hield, while Jackson, although a college veteran, may not be ready to step in right away.
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cameroncrazies02
#17 Posted : Tuesday, July 04, 2017 11:39:13 PM(UTC)

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hueby wrote:
cameroncrazies02 wrote:
Ugh, these Derrick Rose rumors. We have Brogdon and Delly. Clearing cap, I'd have to imagine it'd be Delly going out. Is Rose an upgrade over Delly? At this point, I'd rather stay the course with Delly and his outside shooting. Especially what it'll cost us to take on Rose. There's three ways to take Rose on. 1) Sign him to an exception being either mid-level or bi-annual. I think mid-level is around $8 mill per. 2) Sign and trade with the Knicks. This option seems somewhat unlikely. The Knicks would have to take back salary and we don't have any salary to offer that's good unless we attach an asset. Instead, NY can simply let Rose walk and hold their cap space. 3) Trade a contract + an asset to free up cap room and sign Rose. #3 is my biggest nightmare. It'd mean something like a Henson/Telly contract and adding a 1st round pick to another team simply to open space to sign Rose.

I hope this is just a formality. See how low he's willing to go on a contract. He got $20 mill from NYK last season and statistically, did pretty well, but was a nightmare in the flow of the offense, is known to be a bit of an issue in the locker room AND tore his meniscus late in the year. I can't imagine he's thinking he's worth anywhere near $10 mill a year and for more than a year for that matter.

Even if we completely walk away from this without a deal and it's never spoken of again, it isn't a great look for our new front office. These are the types of guys we went after in the Kohl era. It's not innovative or progressive. GM's are becoming clever making shrewd cap moves, signing guys to innovative contracts and finding ways to sign guys without any cap room via sign and trades. And on the same day, the Lakers may lock up George Hill (a PERFECT fit for this team) to a 1 year deal (albeit for big money, but still) and Darren Collison gets a measly 2/20 contract which would be perfect.


I don't have twitter or Facebook, sounds like a deal is in the works. Anyone hear anything new? (Thanks for the update/ thread)


No deal is imminent. There's just been a lot of talk of if the Bucks wanted him, how would they make it work financially. No news is good news. He didn't leave with a contract and typically, when you meet with a team, if everything goes swimmingly and you can agree on something, it's reported. Now a report is out there that Rose is meeting with the Clippers as well, so that means it didn't go 100% swimmingly which is good.
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gstacy
#18 Posted : Wednesday, July 05, 2017 7:45:56 AM(UTC)
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do the Bucks have room for Olynyk? i think he'd be perfect coming off the bench.
hueby
#19 Posted : Wednesday, July 05, 2017 6:24:14 PM(UTC)
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cameroncrazies02 wrote:
hueby wrote:
cameroncrazies02 wrote:
Ugh, these Derrick Rose rumors. We have Brogdon and Delly. Clearing cap, I'd have to imagine it'd be Delly going out. Is Rose an upgrade over Delly? At this point, I'd rather stay the course with Delly and his outside shooting. Especially what it'll cost us to take on Rose. There's three ways to take Rose on. 1) Sign him to an exception being either mid-level or bi-annual. I think mid-level is around $8 mill per. 2) Sign and trade with the Knicks. This option seems somewhat unlikely. The Knicks would have to take back salary and we don't have any salary to offer that's good unless we attach an asset. Instead, NY can simply let Rose walk and hold their cap space. 3) Trade a contract + an asset to free up cap room and sign Rose. #3 is my biggest nightmare. It'd mean something like a Henson/Telly contract and adding a 1st round pick to another team simply to open space to sign Rose.

I hope this is just a formality. See how low he's willing to go on a contract. He got $20 mill from NYK last season and statistically, did pretty well, but was a nightmare in the flow of the offense, is known to be a bit of an issue in the locker room AND tore his meniscus late in the year. I can't imagine he's thinking he's worth anywhere near $10 mill a year and for more than a year for that matter.

Even if we completely walk away from this without a deal and it's never spoken of again, it isn't a great look for our new front office. These are the types of guys we went after in the Kohl era. It's not innovative or progressive. GM's are becoming clever making shrewd cap moves, signing guys to innovative contracts and finding ways to sign guys without any cap room via sign and trades. And on the same day, the Lakers may lock up George Hill (a PERFECT fit for this team) to a 1 year deal (albeit for big money, but still) and Darren Collison gets a measly 2/20 contract which would be perfect.


I don't have twitter or Facebook, sounds like a deal is in the works. Anyone hear anything new? (Thanks for the update/ thread)


No deal is imminent. There's just been a lot of talk of if the Bucks wanted him, how would they make it work financially. No news is good news. He didn't leave with a contract and typically, when you meet with a team, if everything goes swimmingly and you can agree on something, it's reported. Now a report is out there that Rose is meeting with the Clippers as well, so that means it didn't go 100% swimmingly which is good.


Ok sounds good. Thanks for the insight. Will leave you alone for now so you can answer the next question. Fun stuff!
cameroncrazies02
#20 Posted : Wednesday, July 05, 2017 11:03:52 PM(UTC)

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gstacy wrote:
do the Bucks have room for Olynyk? i think he'd be perfect coming off the bench.


The Bucks have basically no room to sign anybody. Their mid-level exception ($8.3 mill per year) is available to them, but that'd push them drastically into the luxury tax. The Bucks will not pay the luxury tax being a small market team that is building an arena. They'd have to make a trade and take back less salary than is incoming to be able to sign someone to the mid-level. The four trade candidates are Delly, Teletovic, Henson and Monroe. You could MAYBE get a team to take on Delly and take back less money, but it wouldn't be drastic. They'd do a deal for Delly if and only if they can then sign a guy on a small deal that keeps them under the luxury tax. But then you'd have to find a back up PG. Teletovic and Henson are in the same boat. They're both owed $10 million and $11 million respectively for the next two seasons. To wipe those contracts off, you'd have to attach an asset (probably a 1st round pick). You could probably get a deal done for Monroe. But, Monroe's market dictated to him that he couldnt' find a team to sign him to a long term deal at similar or better money, so I'm skeptical there's even a trade market.

As for Olynyk, he's going to get somewhere around $15 mill per year on at minimum, a 3 year deal. So he's way, way out of our price range.

Barring some trade we either win by a landslide or do something stupid like giving up an asset, attach a contract and sign someone else, I think we're about at our roster.

PG-Brogdon, Delly
SG-Middleton, Vaughn, Brown
SF-Snell, Jabari (when he returns)
PF-Giannis, Teletovic, Wilson
C-Thon, Monroe, Hawes

We also have Gary Payton II on a non-guaranteed deal. Short of him killing it in summer league, I bet he's waived. We also signed Bronson Koenig to a two way contract which means he can be brought up for a maximum 45 days of the NBA season without counting against the Bucks cap. I'd guess we'd cut Payton and bring Koenig back and forth a few times depending on depth/injury.

We have room for additional roster spots, but again, we're cap strapped. We'd have until the trade deadline to get under the luxury tax (when teams receive their tax bill) so I could see us adding someone else yet in hopes we could trade Monroe. But it's risky. It puts the team on edge knowing we'd for sure be trading someone at some point, and, if you can't find a good deal for your team, we'd have to make a disadvantageous trade (Henson and a 1st for almost nothing) to get under the luxury tax.

We're scary thin at SF. Best case scenario is Vaughn becomes more productive (doubtful) or Brown steps in and plays well almost right away so we can move Middleton around to SF and get Snell/Giannis a breather. I could see us going after a minimum contract guy that's a SF (like how we got Beasley) to fill the gap until Jabari returns. This is where free agency slows down. A few more big contracts will be given out, but I'd bet the Bucks wait now until money's all spent by other teams and we get a bargain.
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cameroncrazies02
#21 Posted : Wednesday, July 05, 2017 11:46:41 PM(UTC)

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Dion Waiters re-signs with MIA for 4/52-
I thought this was a bargain. In comparison to other contracts, Waiters getting $13 mill per season is a steal. He's still only 25, put up 15 ppg for MIA and was one of the sole reasons MIA nearly crawled back into the playoffs. He's short, a little bit of a chucker and has some not-so-great efficiency percentages, but he's drastically improved his 3P% to nearly 40% last season and is improving a bit in every category. He needs to get a lot better at the free throw line. I think he becomes much more effective when Winslow comes back healthy and they get some interior scoring outside of a Whiteside put back.

OKC re-signs Andre Roberson to 3/30-
He's in the Snell range. Snell got 4/44, so a little longer and a little more expensive, but Roberson has some drastic offensive deficiencies. Almost every offensive category is pretty disastrous. If he wants to be able to be a 30 minute per game guy, he needs to add 1 element to his offense. Starting with an actual corner 3 threat would be big for him, but his FT% is AWFUL. 43% last season won't keep him on the floor at the end of games. But adding Paul George helps. He'll find himself with more opportunities and Westbrook, Roberson and George are a very good, very complimentary 1-3.

Nick Young signs with GSW for 1/5.2-
If you didn't hate GSW before, you will now. This is called a championship bargain. Young wanted to go to a winning team and he took a big paycut to do so. But he'll be a staple off the bench for them. GSW still have work to do on their front court, but bringing back they were so effective in their small lineup, this spells they're going to play it even more.

Pacers waive Monta Ellis-
Now, it's not a straight waiving. They actually stretched him, so they'll be paying him about $2-3 mill per year for the next 5 years. A terrible move for IND in my opinion. They're not going to be that good next year. They have a lot of work to do on that roster. Ellis's contract had 1 year left. Just pay him the contract this year while you're bad instead of owing him for the next 5 years which counts against the cap.

Celtics shopping Smart, Bradley, Crowder-
BOS can't just sign Hayward. They actually need to create more room to do so which will have to come via trade. My guess is they trade Crowder for very little or nothing, opening the way for Tatum and Brown. Crowder is on a very reasonable contract and is still a very effective 3&D guy, something very valuable to a lot of teams right now. There's some discussion of the Hayward signing becoming a sign and trade where BOS gives UTA Crowder and maybe a lesser pick to consumate the deal.
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oldballcoach1
#22 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2017 12:14:14 PM(UTC)
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I was listening to ESPN Radio this morning and I think it was Ryan Rusillo that was talking about how having a handful of "super teams" is a positive for the NBA. I guess I just don't see that. When the so called experts are already predicting that Golden State will win at least the next two NBA Championships and really only face about 2 or 3 other teams that would be able to give them any type of run - I don't see how that is something that is good for the NBA.

I find it frustrating to see the league going this direction. Looking at MLB now - there are about 12-14 teams that have hope of playing in the World Series. Yes - the Brewers are one and if they continue to be in contention - the excitement will grow. And that is true in Kansas City - Minneapolis - and other cities. And going into NFL training camps - about half of the teams could end up playing for a championship. But the NBA - only about 3 or 4 teams have a legit chance to play in the Finals.

Is this the new NBA or something that will end up coming crashing down when the current CBA expires? The rules of salary cap and exceptions and exemptions and Bird Rights and all of those ins and outs are things the common fan like me just don't understand. I can't believe the owners are happy to see some of these contracts. Gordon Hayward is good - but is her worth upwards of $30 million a year?

Others know a lot more about the NBA than me. Help us common NBA fans understand.
cameroncrazies02
#23 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2017 9:42:22 PM(UTC)

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The NBA has done a really good job of trying to accommodate smaller markets. There are certain provisions that entice players to stay with their current teams. There's a Derrick Rose rule implemented after the 2011 season and the Kevin Durant rule implemented this season as its first. These both are such that, a player who has been with his team for a certain number of years or is on his rookie contract, if they meet certain criteria (all-NBA, MVP, DPOY, etc) for a certain number of years can receive a greater contract from his team he currently plays for than any other team can offer. I believe Utah offered Gordon Hayward the Kevin Durant rule contract and Hayward actually turned down an extra $44 million to go to BOS. That is meant to be more of the exception than the rule.

You can't put rules in place that prohibit players from going to any team they want. If Durant wanted to sign with GSW for the minimum deal rather than take OKC's max offer, he can do that. As for the exceptions, those have nothing to do with big or small markets. It allows team to finagle when they are capped out. I'd have to read into it, but if the basics is, if you're capped out (have no money to spend) you can still go over the cap to sign a player for a mid-level, but the minimum years is 3. And then you have to pay the luxury tax. The luxury tax is a big way to help small market teams. If you're under the luxury tax threshold, you and every other team under the threshold receive an equal portion of what teams who are over the threshold pay to the league. It incentivizes teams to not over-spend and punishes those who don't.

Bird rights are another example. If a player is a restricted free agent, they can go to free agency, but any other team who signs that player to a contract, his original team can match that deal. Its qualifications have to do with how long that player has been with his original team. It's another way to prevent free agents from just jetting off at the earliest year they can.

As for the superteam...too many teams have been named, "super teams." The Heat when they signed Chris Bosh, Lebron and Wade were one of the originals. From there, GSW have been the only other team, IMO, that are actual super teams. The Knicks and Bulls, both respectively, have been called by some as super teams. Both of those teams, the year they had such expectations, were way worse than expected.

GSW are a tough team right now. But they lucked out with absolutely no injuries last year to any of their major cogs and are a bit of a bend and don't break team when it comes to their defense. GSW started off 24-0 in the 16-17' season. They broke the infamous Bulls regular season record and bulldozed their way to the Finals. They had some injuries, but still seemed almost unstoppable, but ultimately lost in the Finals to the Cavs. So, as great as their run was, they still didn't win it all.

GSW right now are paying so much money to retain their own players. Klay Thompson's contract is up in 2 years. They won't be able to re-sign him and Draymond Green. So no matter what happens next season, they're going to have a decision to make when it comes to their roster. Will they trade Klay or try to re-sign him for less? Personally, I think Klay will ultimately go elsewhere. Media pressure has become a huge thing. The minute there's a rumble of a star player wanting a trade, whether it's minor or not, the media pushes and pushes and pushes. It's so rare that that media rush starts and doesn't end with that same player sticking with his original team.
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cameroncrazies02
#24 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2017 10:10:19 PM(UTC)

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Rudy Gay signs with Spurs for 2/17
An absolute steal for SA. Gay is coming of an Achilles injury which hampers his value, but he's still only 30 and is a good scorer. The second year of the deal is a player option so he's essentially operating on a 1 year "show me" type deal. They still have a lot of work to do with their front court and this raises questions what SA will do with their wings as they have Danny Green, but I suspect they're going to move Kawhi to PF full time.

Knicks sign Tim Hardaway Jr to 4/71-
What a horrible contract. Hardaway's a pretty good scorer, but his 3P% have been below average and he doesn't do anything else really well. To pay him $18 mill per season is outrageous. This is just an offer sheet. The Hawks could match, but I'd guess they're very very quickly sending a fax back to NYK that says, "heh, no thanks." So now the Knicks are paying Joakim Noah (suspended for half the season), Courtney Lee and Hardaway Jr $47 million next season which is just over half of their cap space.

Dirk Nowitzki re-signs with Mavs for 2/10-
Clearly a deal that Dirk says, I can make up my money in sponsorships and want to give the Mavs cap flexibility. A perfect example of an extremely loyal player to his original team.

Heat sign James Johnson to 4/60-
This is why the Snell deal is a good one. Johnson is 30 years old, has played for 7 teams, has never averaged more than 9 points per game until last season. He was a terrific defender, expanded his range to the 3P line a bit, but still has limitations and yet is going to get $15 mill per season.

Heat sign Kelly Olynyk to 4/50-
Ummm...okay so it's a bit of an overpay. Olynyk is a good player. Can shoot, okay rebounder, good passer...but he's more of a $10 mill per year type player than $13M per. And now, MIA has Whiteside, Adebayo, Johnson and Olynyk who all play the 4/5. So two of those guys will come off the bench. I guess you have a nice rotation of Johnson and Whiteside and Olynyk and Adebayo off the bench, but there's only so many minutes to disperse. So now MIA is paying Johnson, Olynyk and Waiters $41 mill per for the next 4 years. Oh, and let's not forget, they're paying Tyler Johnson $20 mill per year after this coming season and Goran Dragic $18 mill this year, plus 2 more. So they think they have the winning team in Dragic, Waiters, Winslow, Johnson, Whiteside with Tyler Johnson, Olynyk, Adebayo off the bench. That's not a 50 win team to me.

Kings sign Vince Carter to 1/8-
This is the type of guy I would've loved the Bucks to get. They need some veteran presence and depth at the 2/3, but alas, they don't have the money to do it. The Kings are doing it right by signing Carter, Hill and Randolph to bolster their veteran presence in their locker room amongst their young guys.
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oldballcoach1
#25 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 10:13:09 AM(UTC)
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cameroncrazies02 wrote:
The NBA has done a really good job of trying to accommodate smaller markets. There are certain provisions that entice players to stay with their current teams. There's a Derrick Rose rule implemented after the 2011 season and the Kevin Durant rule implemented this season as its first. These both are such that, a player who has been with his team for a certain number of years or is on his rookie contract, if they meet certain criteria (all-NBA, MVP, DPOY, etc) for a certain number of years can receive a greater contract from his team he currently plays for than any other team can offer. I believe Utah offered Gordon Hayward the Kevin Durant rule contract and Hayward actually turned down an extra $44 million to go to BOS. That is meant to be more of the exception than the rule.

You can't put rules in place that prohibit players from going to any team they want. If Durant wanted to sign with GSW for the minimum deal rather than take OKC's max offer, he can do that. As for the exceptions, those have nothing to do with big or small markets. It allows team to finagle when they are capped out. I'd have to read into it, but if the basics is, if you're capped out (have no money to spend) you can still go over the cap to sign a player for a mid-level, but the minimum years is 3. And then you have to pay the luxury tax. The luxury tax is a big way to help small market teams. If you're under the luxury tax threshold, you and every other team under the threshold receive an equal portion of what teams who are over the threshold pay to the league. It incentivizes teams to not over-spend and punishes those who don't.

Bird rights are another example. If a player is a restricted free agent, they can go to free agency, but any other team who signs that player to a contract, his original team can match that deal. Its qualifications have to do with how long that player has been with his original team. It's another way to prevent free agents from just jetting off at the earliest year they can.

As for the superteam...too many teams have been named, "super teams." The Heat when they signed Chris Bosh, Lebron and Wade were one of the originals. From there, GSW have been the only other team, IMO, that are actual super teams. The Knicks and Bulls, both respectively, have been called by some as super teams. Both of those teams, the year they had such expectations, were way worse than expected.

GSW are a tough team right now. But they lucked out with absolutely no injuries last year to any of their major cogs and are a bit of a bend and don't break team when it comes to their defense. GSW started off 24-0 in the 16-17' season. They broke the infamous Bulls regular season record and bulldozed their way to the Finals. They had some injuries, but still seemed almost unstoppable, but ultimately lost in the Finals to the Cavs. So, as great as their run was, they still didn't win it all.

GSW right now are paying so much money to retain their own players. Klay Thompson's contract is up in 2 years. They won't be able to re-sign him and Draymond Green. So no matter what happens next season, they're going to have a decision to make when it comes to their roster. Will they trade Klay or try to re-sign him for less? Personally, I think Klay will ultimately go elsewhere. Media pressure has become a huge thing. The minute there's a rumble of a star player wanting a trade, whether it's minor or not, the media pushes and pushes and pushes. It's so rare that that media rush starts and doesn't end with that same player sticking with his original team.



That is good information. I just don't see it being healthy for the league to only have 3 or 4 teams with legitimate chances of winning a championship. I always thought the idea of a salary cap was in part to spread the talent and award the teams that manage that cap while building the best team they can within that allotted amount of money.

What does the salary cap essentially mean anymore? As I see it - if teams exceed it - they pay the luxury tax which is a certain percent - but what would stop an owner - right now lets say the Warriors owner with all of their revenue coming in - from doubling the salary cap and signing guys to these huge deals? If he has the money to pay the luxury tax - then it is allowable? Maybe that is unrealistic - but it just seems like the salary cap is somewhat meaningless with all of the ways to get around it.
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