09-10 Big Ten, Big East, ACC, Big 12

Wizzler


I don't care what the number say it is always the Big East.

just a brutal post...it's really all about the numbers and percentage being the most credible stat you cant just say because the big east has the most teams in the big dance each year theyre continually the best-if you have 5 more teams than most other conferences than obviously you will send more to the NCAAs and percentage-wise and just looking ahead to the 09-10 season which is what this thread is all about, they return very little talent relative to other conferences such as the Big Ten and relative to past years

Big Ten is better!  When was the last time they won an ACC-Big Ten Challenge?  Don't give me matchup bull crap.  I will not buy that match ups were in the ACC favor every year.

Big Ten is never better than the ACC, how can they be the best in the country?

Izzy alcantara is my hero The first true atari bigby fan Proof Beer + cheez its + women = good "its funny, I get paid to knock people out, It's Great." Atari Bigby.

There are more good teams in the Big East than any other conference:  Fact.

UW/Big Ten argument:  "We'll that is only because they have 16 teams.  Doesn't matter, but look at the bottom, they have 4 terrible teams."

I have been hearing this since the merger.  The number of good teams is inflated becasue of the number of overall teams.  By the very nature of that argument the same is true for the bottom teams too.  Voodoo numbers never prove anything(BCS).  The median talent in the Big East is just higher than any other league. 

No conference can top Big East 1-12.  Impossible too many good teams.  When you have 8 teams in the top 58 rpi, there are gong to be bad teams a the bottom no matter what 16 teams you put together.  Lets sub out Wisconsin for St. Johns just for this year.  Does Wisconsin even have chance at the top 7-8?  Not much of one(0.2%) and you guys think they are a top program in the country, how the hell is St Johns supposed to compete.  Where would Northwestern end up? 

Marquette is not a top program in the country(I will crap myself if they finish higher than 8).  Villanova, Uconn, Cuse, Pitt, Louisville are top programs in the country and that is the difference.
ACC: UNC Wake  Duke
Big Ten: Michigan State
Big 12: Kansas and a couple other good but not top of tier.
Pac 10:  UCLA is doing well again.

ACC and Big East are top dogs.

Izzy alcantara is my hero The first true atari bigby fan Proof Beer + cheez its + women = good "its funny, I get paid to knock people out, It's Great." Atari Bigby.

Wizzler


Big Ten is better!  When was the last time they won an ACC-Big Ten Challenge?  Don't give me matchup bull crap.  I will not buy that match ups were in the ACC favor every year.

Big Ten is never better than the ACC, how can they be the best in the country?

Another solid post

So if the Big Ten wins it this year will you admit the Big Ten is better? Probably not. 

I dont think the question is who has been better since the ACC/B10 challenge started, unless I missed something. Everybody in the world will tell you the ACC is way down compared to the last couple of years. UNC won't be as good. Duke won't be as good. Wake won't be as good. Virginia Tech won't be as good. Miami won't be as good. G-tech will be better. Clemson will be about the same. 

The Big Ten on the other hand, lost very little talent from an extremely young conference where the entire All-Conference first team consisted of sophomores as did much of the second and third. Michigan State will be about the same. Purdue will be better. Ohio State will be better Minnesota will be better. Michigan will be better. Illinois will be better. Wisconsin will be about the same. Indian will be better. PSU will be a little worse. Iowa will be about the same.

Off Topic: Buzz Williams is a cheater and I heard that Tom Crean is trying to completely disassociate himself from Buzz because of the shady tactics he is using. Crean is somebody who is not afraid to push the ethical line either so I can only imagine what Buzz is doing.

Conference WINNING % 2008-2009

Big 10 61.3
Big East 63.5

You are right though I am the fool. Remember a win in conference means a lose in conference...so that is only .500.  What does this mean?  Big East is better out of conference than the Big Ten.

Izzy alcantara is my hero The first true atari bigby fan Proof Beer + cheez its + women = good "its funny, I get paid to knock people out, It's Great." Atari Bigby.

Wizzler


Conference WINNING % 2008-2009

Big 10 61.3
Big East 63.5

You are right though I am the fool. Remember a win in conference means a lose in conference...so that is only .500.  What does this mean?  Big East is better out of conference than the Big Ten.

Do you understand that people are talking about this year?

The Big East lost a ton of talent from one of the greatest conferences of all time. The Big Ten lost almost nothing.

3points

Wizzler


Big Ten is better!  When was the last time they won an ACC-Big Ten Challenge?  Don't give me matchup bull crap.  I will not buy that match ups were in the ACC favor every year.

Big Ten is never better than the ACC, how can they be the best in the country?

Another solid post

So if the Big Ten wins it this year will you admit the Big Ten is better? Probably not. 

For that year it is a valid argument.  I could have brought up the Big East has the best winning % of any conference in CB history but that would be stupid.  Past is good when talk about long term or specific years.  We can make projections but we don't know a damn thing about 09-10 yet.  Big East could be terrible for all we know.

I dont think the question is who has been better since the ACC/B10 challenge started, unless I missed something. Everybody in the world will tell you the ACC is way down compared to the last couple of years. UNC won't be as good. Duke won't be as good. Wake won't be as good. Virginia Tech won't be as good. Miami won't be as good. G-tech will be better. Clemson will be about the same. 

The Big Ten on the other hand, lost very little talent from an extremely young conference where the entire All-Conference first team consisted of sophomores as did much of the second and third. Michigan State will be about the same. Purdue will be better. Ohio State will be better Minnesota will be better. Michigan will be better. Illinois will be better. Wisconsin will be about the same. Indian will be better. PSU will be a little worse. Iowa will be about the same.

Off Topic: Buzz Williams is a cheater and I heard that Tom Crean is trying to completely disassociate himself from Buzz because of the shady tactics he is using. Crean is somebody who is not afraid to push the ethical line either so I can only imagine what Buzz is doing.

I have been thinking bad ethical things about Buzz as well.  Need facts before I can hate him and a NC title or at least a Big East title before I canlove him after the facts come out...I've heard things though.

Izzy alcantara is my hero The first true atari bigby fan Proof Beer + cheez its + women = good "its funny, I get paid to knock people out, It's Great." Atari Bigby.

3points

Wizzler


Conference WINNING % 2008-2009

Big 10 61.3
Big East 63.5

You are right though I am the fool. Remember a win in conference means a lose in conference...so that is only .500.  What does this mean?  Big East is better out of conference than the Big Ten.

Do you understand that people are talking about this year?

The Big East lost a ton of talent from one of the greatest conferences of all time. The Big Ten lost almost nothing.

I understand this...I did not read the thread I am just busting all the weak BS arguments that I know are in there.

Izzy alcantara is my hero The first true atari bigby fan Proof Beer + cheez its + women = good "its funny, I get paid to knock people out, It's Great." Atari Bigby.

Wizzler

3points

Wizzler


Conference WINNING % 2008-2009

Big 10 61.3
Big East 63.5

You are right though I am the fool. Remember a win in conference means a lose in conference...so that is only .500.  What does this mean?  Big East is better out of conference than the Big Ten.

Do you understand that people are talking about this year?

The Big East lost a ton of talent from one of the greatest conferences of all time. The Big Ten lost almost nothing.

I understand this...I did not read the thread I am just busting all the weak BS arguments that I know are in there.

Probably best not to read the threads you post in and just make random comments on previous years.

3points

Wizzler

3points

Wizzler


Conference WINNING % 2008-2009

Big 10 61.3
Big East 63.5

You are right though I am the fool. Remember a win in conference means a lose in conference...so that is only .500.  What does this mean?  Big East is better out of conference than the Big Ten.

Do you understand that people are talking about this year?

The Big East lost a ton of talent from one of the greatest conferences of all time. The Big Ten lost almost nothing.

I understand this...I did not read the thread I am just busting all the weak BS arguments that I know are in there.

Probably best not to read the threads you post in and just make random comments on previous years.

You are probably right about that.  I am not much for tact.

Izzy alcantara is my hero The first true atari bigby fan Proof Beer + cheez its + women = good "its funny, I get paid to knock people out, It's Great." Atari Bigby.

3points

Another solid post

So if the Big Ten wins it this year will you admit the Big Ten is better? Probably not. 

I dont think the question is who has been better since the ACC/B10 challenge started, unless I missed something. Everybody in the world will tell you the ACC is way down compared to the last couple of years. UNC won't be as good. Duke won't be as good. Wake won't be as good. Virginia Tech won't be as good. Miami won't be as good. G-tech will be better. Clemson will be about the same. 

The Big Ten on the other hand, lost very little talent from an extremely young conference where the entire All-Conference first team consisted of sophomores as did much of the second and third. Michigan State will be about the same. Purdue will be better. Ohio State will be better Minnesota will be better. Michigan will be better. Illinois will be better. Wisconsin will be about the same. Indian will be better. PSU will be a little worse. Iowa will be about the same.

Off Topic: Buzz Williams is a cheater and I heard that Tom Crean is trying to completely disassociate himself from Buzz because of the shady tactics he is using. Crean is somebody who is not afraid to push the ethical line either so I can only imagine what Buzz is doing.

 

I refuse to buy into Ohio State being better and Purdue being better. Especially Purdue, who have had high expectations at the start of the season for the past few years and have crapped their pants big time.

As for the ACC, North Carolina and Duke both have restocked. North Carolina isn't going to be as good as last year obviously but I'd be surprised if they lost more than 6 or 7 games all year. I think Duke will actually be improved from last years team. They have a ton of size now with the Plumlee brothers and Kelly standing at 6'10" with Zoubek and Thomas still being around. I don't think any of these guys will be offensive studs, but it gives them the post presence they've lacked the past few years. Really, the only big hit they took was losing Henderson. The fact that Dawkins was able to come in early completely erases the departure of Elliot Williams.

I may be wrong, but I doubt it "I do have one question: Have you ever seen Gollum, John Clayton and Sam Cassell in the same place before?" - Charles Barkley

Wizzler


There are more good teams in the Big East than any other conference:  Fact.

UW/Big Ten argument:  "We'll that is only because they have 16 teams.  Doesn't matter, but look at the bottom, they have 4 terrible teams."

I have been hearing this since the merger.  The number of good teams is inflated becasue of the number of overall teams.  By the very nature of that argument the same is true for the bottom teams too.  Voodoo numbers never prove anything(BCS).  The median talent in the Big East is just higher than any other league. 

No conference can top Big East 1-12.  Impossible too many good teams.  When you have 8 teams in the top 58 rpi, there are gong to be bad teams a the bottom no matter what 16 teams you put together.  Lets sub out Wisconsin for St. Johns just for this year.  Does Wisconsin even have chance at the top 7-8?  Not much of one(0.2%) and you guys think they are a top program in the country, how the hell is St Johns supposed to compete.  Where would Northwestern end up? 

Marquette is not a top program in the country(I will crap myself if they finish higher than 8).  Villanova, Uconn, Cuse, Pitt, Louisville are top programs in the country and that is the difference.
ACC: UNC Wake  Duke
Big Ten: Michigan State
Big 12: Kansas and a couple other good but not top of tier.
Pac 10:  UCLA is doing well again.

ACC and Big East are top dogs.

 

I didn't realize that losing to Lemoyne was a characteristic of a top program in the country.

The top programs in the country change every year.  Villanova, Syracuse, Pitt, and Louisville are as consistent "top programs" as OSU, Wisconsin, Indiana, Purdue.  Just to give a little evidence for that.  Bo Ryan has the top winning percentage in the Big Ten.  Not just since he has been there, in the history of the conference.  2nd, Bobby Knight. 

The Big Ten has more teams in the AP top 25 at the moment than the Big East.  This is with 5 less teams.  We'll see if that holds true throughout the season.  The fact is though, that the Big East lost a ton of talent, and the Big Ten did not.  The Big Ten last year also had a higher RPI than the Big East.  

So it would stand to reason that this year there will be an even larger gap.  Whether you think the Big East or Big Ten was better last year, it was close.  With the talent loss in the Big East and the lack of talent loss in the Big Ten it appears that the Big Ten will be better than the Big East this year.  

Peter La Fleur: I found that if you have a goal, that you might not reach it. But if you don't have one, then you are never disappointed. And I gotta tell ya... it feels phenomenal.

Preseason rankings are retarded, they're pretty irrelevant.

I may be wrong, but I doubt it "I do have one question: Have you ever seen Gollum, John Clayton and Sam Cassell in the same place before?" - Charles Barkley

Rodey

3points

Another solid post

So if the Big Ten wins it this year will you admit the Big Ten is better? Probably not. 

I dont think the question is who has been better since the ACC/B10 challenge started, unless I missed something. Everybody in the world will tell you the ACC is way down compared to the last couple of years. UNC won't be as good. Duke won't be as good. Wake won't be as good. Virginia Tech won't be as good. Miami won't be as good. G-tech will be better. Clemson will be about the same. 

The Big Ten on the other hand, lost very little talent from an extremely young conference where the entire All-Conference first team consisted of sophomores as did much of the second and third. Michigan State will be about the same. Purdue will be better. Ohio State will be better Minnesota will be better. Michigan will be better. Illinois will be better. Wisconsin will be about the same. Indian will be better. PSU will be a little worse. Iowa will be about the same.

Off Topic: Buzz Williams is a cheater and I heard that Tom Crean is trying to completely disassociate himself from Buzz because of the shady tactics he is using. Crean is somebody who is not afraid to push the ethical line either so I can only imagine what Buzz is doing.

 

I refuse to buy into Ohio State being better and Purdue being better. Especially Purdue, who have had high expectations at the start of the season for the past few years and have crapped their pants big time.

As for the ACC, North Carolina and Duke both have restocked. North Carolina isn't going to be as good as last year obviously but I'd be surprised if they lost more than 6 or 7 games all year. I think Duke will actually be improved from last years team. They have a ton of size now with the Plumlee brothers and Kelly standing at 6'10" with Zoubek and Thomas still being around. I don't think any of these guys will be offensive studs, but it gives them the post presence they've lacked the past few years. Really, the only big hit they took was losing Henderson. The fact that Dawkins was able to come in early completely erases the departure of Elliot Williams.

You are way off on Purdue. They had almost zero expecations on them two years ago and were one of the youngest teams in the nation, yet went 15-3 and won the B10. Last year the expectations were very much elevated but they suffered through a rash of injuries that really hurt them. Hummel is the most important player on that team and he was hurt the entire season and missed 5 games. Purdue lost 3 of those 5. He is back and healthy this year along with Jajuan Johnson and E'twaun Moore. Johnson is full of potential and was one of the most improved players in the nation last year. He will likely be even better this year. Add in Chris Kramer and Keaton Grant, two solid role players. And Lewis Jackson should make the freshman to sophomore jump and will improve on a pretty solid first year.

Ohio State returns everybody except Mullens. David Lighty returns to bring some depth and defense. Buford is likely to make a big jump this year after being freshman of the year last season. They bring back the best three point shooter in the conference in Diebler. They lack inside scoring and point guard play. If Turner transitions well to the point, this will be a much improved team.

I agree that Carolina will still be good. They will have their struggles early in the year, but will be an elite eight team when it is over. I don't see them being better than that with their youth and lack of point guard play.

Duke is very deep in the front court, but are severely lacking backcourt depth. They have three real guards and one of them is supposed to be in high school right now. Scheyer has to run the point, which is not a natural position for him. They will really miss Henderson's versatility. Elliot Williams will be a much bigger loss than you are making him out to be. He would have a year of experience and showed he had big time potential late last season. He is tearing it up at Memphis and I just don't see Dawkins completely cancelling out that loss. Maybe Duke will be the same as last year, I just don't see it.

I saw Mason Plumlee a few times with his high school team and he was a big time potential kid but produced very little. I don't expect his performances in their exhibition games to carry over. Miles had big exhibition games last year and we saw how little he contributed. I expect Ryan Kelly to be an impact player sooner than Mason because of his IQ and skill level.

Rodey

3points

Another solid post

So if the Big Ten wins it this year will you admit the Big Ten is better? Probably not. 

I dont think the question is who has been better since the ACC/B10 challenge started, unless I missed something. Everybody in the world will tell you the ACC is way down compared to the last couple of years. UNC won't be as good. Duke won't be as good. Wake won't be as good. Virginia Tech won't be as good. Miami won't be as good. G-tech will be better. Clemson will be about the same. 

The Big Ten on the other hand, lost very little talent from an extremely young conference where the entire All-Conference first team consisted of sophomores as did much of the second and third. Michigan State will be about the same. Purdue will be better. Ohio State will be better Minnesota will be better. Michigan will be better. Illinois will be better. Wisconsin will be about the same. Indian will be better. PSU will be a little worse. Iowa will be about the same.

Off Topic: Buzz Williams is a cheater and I heard that Tom Crean is trying to completely disassociate himself from Buzz because of the shady tactics he is using. Crean is somebody who is not afraid to push the ethical line either so I can only imagine what Buzz is doing.

 

I refuse to buy into Ohio State being better and Purdue being better. Especially Purdue, who have had high expectations at the start of the season for the past few years and have crapped their pants big time.

As for the ACC, North Carolina and Duke both have restocked. North Carolina isn't going to be as good as last year obviously but I'd be surprised if they lost more than 6 or 7 games all year. I think Duke will actually be improved from last years team. They have a ton of size now with the Plumlee brothers and Kelly standing at 6'10" with Zoubek and Thomas still being around. I don't think any of these guys will be offensive studs, but it gives them the post presence they've lacked the past few years. Really, the only big hit they took was losing Henderson. The fact that Dawkins was able to come in early completely erases the departure of Elliot Williams.

What are you talking about Rodey?  I'll take your word on UNC and Duke I'm betting you know more than me about those two teams.  But Purdue.  Two years ago they had zero expectations and were great.  Last year they had high expectations, tons of injuries, and still made the Elite Eight.  Finishing like 3 spots lower in the post season rankings than the preseason rankings. How is an Elite Eight crapping their pants no matter what though?

Peter La Fleur: I found that if you have a goal, that you might not reach it. But if you don't have one, then you are never disappointed. And I gotta tell ya... it feels phenomenal.