clutch32

cory


alright, so the biggest grip about this gomez kid is that he can't hit, correct? the 24 year old kid has trouble hitting major league pitching, that happens fairly often, no? jj wasn't hitting at all either.

i can understand disliking the trade, i mean it won't be for about another year (if not longer) until we know who got the better end of the deal, but i don't know; to not like this trade because gomez can't hit, that just doesn't make any sense to me because jj wasn't hitting either, the crew still have a shortstop and this kid is young, he's got a lot of time to develop into a decent bat.

i think the point is hardy has shown the ability to hit before, whereas gomez has not
anyways you aren't replacing hardy with gomez, you are replacing cameron with  gomez, and with gomez you get a lower batting average (eehk) and no home runs (ehhk) and similar defense

But you are also getting a better average out of Escobar than you do from Hardy, as well as you save yourself 15 million to go after a starting pitcher.

paparomo09

Bears win big in this one Green Bay just does not have it to compete with the bears final outcome will be.
BEARS 49
PACKERS 7

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clutch32

cory


alright, so the biggest grip about this gomez kid is that he can't hit, correct? the 24 year old kid has trouble hitting major league pitching, that happens fairly often, no? jj wasn't hitting at all either.

i can understand disliking the trade, i mean it won't be for about another year (if not longer) until we know who got the better end of the deal, but i don't know; to not like this trade because gomez can't hit, that just doesn't make any sense to me because jj wasn't hitting either, the crew still have a shortstop and this kid is young, he's got a lot of time to develop into a decent bat.

i think the point is hardy has shown the ability to hit before, whereas gomez has not
anyways you aren't replacing hardy with gomez, you are replacing cameron with  gomez, and with gomez you get a lower batting average (eehk) and no home runs (ehhk) and similar defense

But you are also getting a better average out of Escobar than you do from Hardy, as well as you save yourself 15 million to go after a starting pitcher.

we are also losing 30-35 HRs and without looking at stats probably around 80 RBIs or more between losing hardy and cameron. For me it comes down to if youre willing to part with a top 3 power hitting SS in the game and not get power in return you better have someone that at least gets on base and hits for a decent average. guys like gomez are a dime a dozen, shortstops that can hit 30 HRs a year are not. Power is a commodity in baseball and I dont feel we got fair value for what we gave up at this point

kilncannon

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clutch32

cory


alright, so the biggest grip about this gomez kid is that he can't hit, correct? the 24 year old kid has trouble hitting major league pitching, that happens fairly often, no? jj wasn't hitting at all either.

i can understand disliking the trade, i mean it won't be for about another year (if not longer) until we know who got the better end of the deal, but i don't know; to not like this trade because gomez can't hit, that just doesn't make any sense to me because jj wasn't hitting either, the crew still have a shortstop and this kid is young, he's got a lot of time to develop into a decent bat.

i think the point is hardy has shown the ability to hit before, whereas gomez has not
anyways you aren't replacing hardy with gomez, you are replacing cameron with  gomez, and with gomez you get a lower batting average (eehk) and no home runs (ehhk) and similar defense

But you are also getting a better average out of Escobar than you do from Hardy, as well as you save yourself 15 million to go after a starting pitcher.

we are also losing 30-35 HRs and without looking at stats probably around 80 RBIs or more between losing hardy and cameron. For me it comes down to if youre willing to part with a top 3 power hitting SS in the game and not get power in return you better have someone that at least gets on base and hits for a decent average. guys like gomez are a dime a dozen, shortstops that can hit 30 HRs a year are not. Power is a commodity in baseball and I dont feel we got fair value for what we gave up at this point

I understand your point, but let's not inflate stats. JJ never hit 30 home runs in a season and if last year is an indication, he will not ever hit 30 home runs in a season.

Football is like the mafia...if you are involved long enough, eventually you are going to get whacked!

JJ seems to be too streaky to hit 30.  I would say 25 is a great year.  Right around 20 will be his norm.  If last year is an indication of his struggles, 15 is more realistic.

O i wish, i wish, someone on the brewers could hit .300

"You can slam your head into a wall for an hour and say you worked hard, but it doesn't mean you did the right thing nor did it smartly." -pistolpetefan23

The CrackerJack

kilncannon

Paladium

clutch32

cory


alright, so the biggest grip about this gomez kid is that he can't hit, correct? the 24 year old kid has trouble hitting major league pitching, that happens fairly often, no? jj wasn't hitting at all either.

i can understand disliking the trade, i mean it won't be for about another year (if not longer) until we know who got the better end of the deal, but i don't know; to not like this trade because gomez can't hit, that just doesn't make any sense to me because jj wasn't hitting either, the crew still have a shortstop and this kid is young, he's got a lot of time to develop into a decent bat.

i think the point is hardy has shown the ability to hit before, whereas gomez has not
anyways you aren't replacing hardy with gomez, you are replacing cameron with  gomez, and with gomez you get a lower batting average (eehk) and no home runs (ehhk) and similar defense

But you are also getting a better average out of Escobar than you do from Hardy, as well as you save yourself 15 million to go after a starting pitcher.

we are also losing 30-35 HRs and without looking at stats probably around 80 RBIs or more between losing hardy and cameron. For me it comes down to if youre willing to part with a top 3 power hitting SS in the game and not get power in return you better have someone that at least gets on base and hits for a decent average. guys like gomez are a dime a dozen, shortstops that can hit 30 HRs a year are not. Power is a commodity in baseball and I dont feel we got fair value for what we gave up at this point

I understand your point, but let's not inflate stats. JJ never hit 30 home runs in a season and if last year is an indication, he will not ever hit 30 home runs in a season.

Maybe I should have said 30 potential. 20-25 is more realistic. why should last year be any indication to what he will do in the future? he had 11 HRs in 115 games last year in obviously the worst season of his career. either way we lose 20 from hardy and 20 from cameron thats 40 HRs and about 140 RBIs. we replace that with a guy who has a worse career avg then cameron and hardy, and 1 more HR for his career then JJ had in 115 games of the worse season of his life, and you get about 40 RBIs out of him (he had all of 28 last year). If we give up that production from JJ in trade and more than likely giving cameron up now, I think we damn well better have our starting CF and leadoff hitter in that swap. And I will be pissed if gomez is leading off for us next year batting .246 with and OBP of .292 and only scoring 50 Runs or so. The more I think about it I hope gomez comes off the bench and we use some of that money freed up to sign another OF. Like I said I will give him a chance to prove himself but this offense takes a major hit if gomez plays to his career averages and we take out the bats of JJ and cameron without replacing anything they gave to the club.

For those of you thinking Hardy was worth pitching.....
 
From MLBTradeRumors.com
 
Tony Massarotti of The Boston Globe says that the Red Sox "had been engaging with the Brewers in on-and-off discussions involving (J.J.) Hardy since the trading deadline." Massarotti's source says the Brewers wanted either Clay Buchholz or Daniel Bard, but Boston was only willing to part with Michael Bowden.

"Hero's will be remembered, but Legends never die..."-The Sandlot
Brew City Legend: est. 2003
-WSN Hall of Fame Class of 2005 (Inaugural Class)

kilncannon

The CrackerJack

kilncannon

Paladium

clutch32

cory


alright, so the biggest grip about this gomez kid is that he can't hit, correct? the 24 year old kid has trouble hitting major league pitching, that happens fairly often, no? jj wasn't hitting at all either.

i can understand disliking the trade, i mean it won't be for about another year (if not longer) until we know who got the better end of the deal, but i don't know; to not like this trade because gomez can't hit, that just doesn't make any sense to me because jj wasn't hitting either, the crew still have a shortstop and this kid is young, he's got a lot of time to develop into a decent bat.

i think the point is hardy has shown the ability to hit before, whereas gomez has not
anyways you aren't replacing hardy with gomez, you are replacing cameron with  gomez, and with gomez you get a lower batting average (eehk) and no home runs (ehhk) and similar defense

But you are also getting a better average out of Escobar than you do from Hardy, as well as you save yourself 15 million to go after a starting pitcher.

we are also losing 30-35 HRs and without looking at stats probably around 80 RBIs or more between losing hardy and cameron. For me it comes down to if youre willing to part with a top 3 power hitting SS in the game and not get power in return you better have someone that at least gets on base and hits for a decent average. guys like gomez are a dime a dozen, shortstops that can hit 30 HRs a year are not. Power is a commodity in baseball and I dont feel we got fair value for what we gave up at this point

I understand your point, but let's not inflate stats. JJ never hit 30 home runs in a season and if last year is an indication, he will not ever hit 30 home runs in a season.

Maybe I should have said 30 potential. 20-25 is more realistic. why should last year be any indication to what he will do in the future? he had 11 HRs in 115 games last year in obviously the worst season of his career. either way we lose 20 from hardy and 20 from cameron thats 40 HRs and about 140 RBIs. we replace that with a guy who has a worse career avg then cameron and hardy, and 1 more HR for his career then JJ had in 115 games of the worse season of his life, and you get about 40 RBIs out of him (he had all of 28 last year). If we give up that production from JJ in trade and more than likely giving cameron up now, I think we damn well better have our starting CF and leadoff hitter in that swap. And I will be pissed if gomez is leading off for us next year batting .246 with and OBP of .292 and only scoring 50 Runs or so. The more I think about it I hope gomez comes off the bench and we use some of that money freed up to sign another OF. Like I said I will give him a chance to prove himself but this offense takes a major hit if gomez plays to his career averages and we take out the bats of JJ and cameron without replacing anything they gave to the club.

exactly...i like how we have more money, but we do lose a lot of power with hardy and cameron being replaced by gomez and escobar

Sad to see him go, but the twins are the next best option.

The majority of the Twins fans I have talked to were very happy to see Gomez get traded.

Meatwad: It's like the Thunderdome in here. Only... Two men enter, no man leaves. Starring Mel Gibson... and Master Blaster.

"Where I'm from snitches get stitches." - Delonte West

Second that.  The twins fans(as of right now)  seem to believe there GM is the next Nostradamus, because they feel they pulled one over on Dougie

O i wish, i wish, someone on the brewers could hit .300

"You can slam your head into a wall for an hour and say you worked hard, but it doesn't mean you did the right thing nor did it smartly." -pistolpetefan23

Melvin said in the JSOnline article on the Hardy Trade that he wouldn't be going after Cameron in free agency and called him to tell him that before trading Hardy. Also in that article it said that Cameron would not be looking to a take a pay cut if he was to re-sign.

cory

justjon007


He strikes out more often than I would like to see from a non-power hitter.  Last year, in limited playing time he struck out once every 4.4 at bats.  The year prior, playing everyday, he struck out once every 4.1 at bats.  Cameron struck out once very 3.5 at bats this year, Prince once every 4.3 at bats and Ryan once every 5.2 at bats.

hmm. i just went to baseball reference quickly glanced at his ab's, hits, and k's (in class, can't do thorough research, sring training is a few months away yet). the guy is only 24, he's got plenty of time to correct his major league hitting issues.

if it means anything, the friends of mine who are twins fans are not happy at all about this trade. take that for what its worth

That's interesting.  Several friends & a few relatives of mine who live in the Twin Cities are ecstatic about the trade.  They basically feel that the Twins just stole a legitimate, everyday major league position player from the Brewers for nothing more than a pinch runner/late inning defensive replacement.

Mick Jagger

cory

justjon007


He strikes out more often than I would like to see from a non-power hitter.  Last year, in limited playing time he struck out once every 4.4 at bats.  The year prior, playing everyday, he struck out once every 4.1 at bats.  Cameron struck out once very 3.5 at bats this year, Prince once every 4.3 at bats and Ryan once every 5.2 at bats.

hmm. i just went to baseball reference quickly glanced at his ab's, hits, and k's (in class, can't do thorough research, sring training is a few months away yet). the guy is only 24, he's got plenty of time to correct his major league hitting issues.

if it means anything, the friends of mine who are twins fans are not happy at all about this trade. take that for what its worth

That's interesting.  Several friends & a few relatives of mine who live in the Twin Cities are ecstatic about the trade.  They basically feel that the Twins just stole a legitimate, everyday major league position player from the Brewers for nothing more than a pinch runner/late inning defensive replacement.

I would say the same thing. Everyone I talked to loved this trade for the Twins. It opened a log jam in the OF, got rid of a player that was not doing what they had hoped, and brought in an everyday shortstop. Cabrerra would have been too expensive and would not have been around after July.
 
From a source who has inside info...Gomez was not very coachable. He wanted to do things his way and that was it!

Coach40

Mick Jagger

cory

justjon007


He strikes out more often than I would like to see from a non-power hitter.  Last year, in limited playing time he struck out once every 4.4 at bats.  The year prior, playing everyday, he struck out once every 4.1 at bats.  Cameron struck out once very 3.5 at bats this year, Prince once every 4.3 at bats and Ryan once every 5.2 at bats.

hmm. i just went to baseball reference quickly glanced at his ab's, hits, and k's (in class, can't do thorough research, sring training is a few months away yet). the guy is only 24, he's got plenty of time to correct his major league hitting issues.

if it means anything, the friends of mine who are twins fans are not happy at all about this trade. take that for what its worth

That's interesting.  Several friends & a few relatives of mine who live in the Twin Cities are ecstatic about the trade.  They basically feel that the Twins just stole a legitimate, everyday major league position player from the Brewers for nothing more than a pinch runner/late inning defensive replacement.

I would say the same thing. Everyone I talked to loved this trade for the Twins. It opened a log jam in the OF, got rid of a player that was not doing what they had hoped, and brought in an everyday shortstop. Cabrerra would have been too expensive and would not have been around after July.
 
From a source who has inside info...Gomez was not very coachable. He wanted to do things his way and that was it!

 
 
Fielder will put him in his place just like he did to Parra!

"And last but not least, the best Quarterback on the planet Earth, Brett Favre"-Lil Wayne

"I'm not the greatest; I'm the double greatest. I don't just knock 'em out, I pick the round"-Muhammad Ali

As a die hard twins fan, watched about 155 out of the 163 games, I'm sad to see Gomez go.  I loved how he played the game.  Granted you wanted to see him hit for a higher average but he is by far one of best defensive CF in the game. Plus he's young and very raw, hitting will come with him in time.  I would have rather seen Perkins and a minor league pitcher go to the Brewers before Gomez left but I'll still take the trade. Plus if Gomez was going to go anywhere I don't mind him going to brewers, up there as one of my favorite NL teams.  He will be a fan favorite because he will bring it every single game and will make some catches that you didn't think any one could get to.  But you will have to be patient with him and he will have his moments where you will be yelling at the TV on why did he swing at that pitch.

As far as the Twins getting Hardy, that made my week.  To get probably the best defensive SS in baseball who can also hit 15-25 homers for a Very raw player, was a steal, well for now.  I don't think this deal can be fairly judged for another two or three years.  Plus it also makes that Santana trade look that much better, Delois Guerra, JJ Hardy and Jon Rauch for Johan.  Plus the deal gives Delmon Young a chance to play every day which he needs to do to be able to utilize his potential. 

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
Paul Wellstone

Semper Paratus